Failure to provide specimen without reasonable excuse 😔

[SS13]

Hi all

I’m new to the forum but have been avidly reading as many of the posts about failure to provide cases as possible due to my court case being in the next two weeks.

Two weeks ago I stupidly got into my car to flee a domestic situation with my now ex partner, after having a few drinks earlier in the evening. I was pulled by the police due to him having called them and breathalysed with a reading of 65. I was taken to the station and given three attempts to provide.. I honestly tried my best but only my third attempt gave a reading of 45. The police then charged me with failure to provide, gave me a court date and then let me go. My issue is that I didn’t refuse the test, I just couldn’t muster enough puff to get two decent readings. If the officer badge given me a fourth attempt I may have managed a second reading but he wasn’t having it. I wasn’t given the breath results either…

I’m now in bits as to what to plea.. I’ve got one of those online solicitors who are telling me to plead not guilty so they can see the CCTV and see whether there was an issue with procedure or the machine but I’m a realist and know that they promise the earth and paid handsomely however the outcome.. I’m regretting bothering with them in the first place

I just want to be realistic.. it’s my first offence and I’ve had a clean driving license for over ten years and just want this over with.. is there any way of doing a plea bargain and asking for the charge to be changed to a drink drive charge due to me honestly attempting to blow a reading?? I’ve messed up, that I know but I really did try

Thanks for your help in advance

 

[Guygibson]

Hi all

I’m new to the forum but have been avidly reading as many of the posts about failure to provide cases as possible due to my court case being in the next two weeks.

Two weeks ago I stupidly got into my car to flee a domestic situation with my now ex partner, after having a few drinks earlier in the evening. I was pulled by the police due to him having called them and breathalysed with a reading of 65. I was taken to the station and given three attempts to provide.. I honestly tried my best but only my third attempt gave a reading of 45. The police then charged me with failure to provide, gave me a court date and then let me go. My issue is that I didn’t refuse the test, I just couldn’t muster enough puff to get two decent readings. If the officer badge given me a fourth attempt I may have managed a second reading but he wasn’t having it. I wasn’t given the breath results either…

I’m now in bits as to what to plea.. I’ve got one of those online solicitors who are telling me to plead not guilty so they can see the CCTV and see whether there was an issue with procedure or the machine but I’m a realist and know that they promise the earth and paid handsomely however the outcome.. I’m regretting bothering with them in the first place

I just want to be realistic.. it’s my first offence and I’ve had a clean driving license for over ten years and just want this over with.. is there any way of doing a plea bargain and asking for the charge to be changed to a drink drive charge due to me honestly attempting to blow a reading?? I’ve messed up, that I know but I really did try

Thanks for your help in advance

I wouldn't have thought so you will only get 17 months 1st time and a fine ask for the course at court knocks a quarter off or something and it will fly why complicate things with solicitors don't give them a penny good luck.on your journey

 

[WinterSnow]

Hi all

I’m new to the forum but have been avidly reading as many of the posts about failure to provide cases as possible due to my court case being in the next two weeks.

Two weeks ago I stupidly got into my car to flee a domestic situation with my now ex partner, after having a few drinks earlier in the evening. I was pulled by the police due to him having called them and breathalysed with a reading of 65. I was taken to the station and given three attempts to provide.. I honestly tried my best but only my third attempt gave a reading of 45. The police then charged me with failure to provide, gave me a court date and then let me go. My issue is that I didn’t refuse the test, I just couldn’t muster enough puff to get two decent readings. If the officer badge given me a fourth attempt I may have managed a second reading but he wasn’t having it. I wasn’t given the breath results either…

I’m now in bits as to what to plea.. I’ve got one of those online solicitors who are telling me to plead not guilty so they can see the CCTV and see whether there was an issue with procedure or the machine but I’m a realist and know that they promise the earth and paid handsomely however the outcome.. I’m regretting bothering with them in the first place

I just want to be realistic.. it’s my first offence and I’ve had a clean driving license for over ten years and just want this over with.. is there any way of doing a plea bargain and asking for the charge to be changed to a drink drive charge due to me honestly attempting to blow a reading?? I’ve messed up, that I know but I really did try

Thanks for your help in advance

Unfortunately I very much doubt it unless you have a documented condition which would make you unable to blow. Don’t fall for the online cowboys as so many others have. If you genuinely think you have “not guilty” grounds for FTP then go for a local solicitor; if not then accept the consequence and HRO conviction that comes with the charge. It’s not ideal but once it’s done; you can move on.
Good luck with your journey x

 

[220899]

Unfortunately I very much doubt it unless you have a documented condition which would make you unable to blow. Don’t fall for the online cowboys as so many others have. If you genuinely think you have “not guilty” grounds for FTP then go for a local solicitor; if not then accept the consequence and HRO conviction that comes with the charge. It’s not ideal but once it’s done; you can move on.
Good luck with your journey x

My scenario is so similar to yours in I left a bad situation got pulled over blow 68 roadside and as you couldn’t muster enough breath to provide at the station. The harder I tried the worse I got and was a mess. I hired a solicitor pleaded guilty got 18 months reduced if I did the course and solicitor bills and all other fees. He pleaded I didn’t refuse and in cctv could see how hard I tried but this had no bearing So I’m afraid if you have a medical reason you may be fighting a losing battle

 

[Sundog]

Hi, first of all we’re all here to help, and no judgement. Hope you’re bearing up OK now following what sounds like a very traumatic time.

Secondly, I think only a specialist lawyer in this kind of case can help, if you want to chance it. But as you probably already know this option comes at a much higher cost, with no guaranteed outcome. It is seldom a recommended option here, because the commonality of DUI convictions is what typically makes their prosecution so robustly tight.

So I guess it’s down to risk versus reward. But I suppose the only advice I can give if you’re in bits and totally unsure - and considering the amount of snakes out there who will promise you the moon on a stick and a clean license to gaze under its delightful gaze - is look into your heart and decide for yourself if you were guilty or not. Then do what your heart determines. It’ll help your resolve greatly whatever you decide.

Additionally, if you do plead guilty and are convicted and banned as HRO, this place is very helpful in getting you through the additional hoops required in getting back on the road. They’re easy hoops if you’re sensible, sober and honest with DVLA. Less so if you aren’t any of those three.

Finally I hope very much hope your domestic situation has calmed down now. I know all too well how that feels even as a male. Take care. We are all here to help. X

 

[WinterSnow]

Hi, first of all we’re all here to help, and no judgement. Hope you’re bearing up OK now following what sounds like a very traumatic time.

Secondly, I think only a specialist lawyer in this kind of case can help, if you want to chance it. But as you probably already know this option comes at a much higher cost, with no guaranteed outcome. It is seldom a recommended option here, because the commonality of DUI convictions is what typically makes their prosecution so robustly tight.

So I guess it’s down to risk versus reward. But I suppose the only advice I can give if you’re in bits and totally unsure - and considering the amount of snakes out there who will promise you the moon on a stick and a clean license to gaze under its delightful gaze - is look into your heart and decide for yourself if you were guilty or not. Then do what your heart determines. It’ll help your resolve greatly whatever you decide.

Additionally, if you do plead guilty and are convicted and banned as HRO, this place is very helpful in getting you through the additional hoops required in getting back on the road. They’re easy hoops if you’re sensible, sober and honest with DVLA. Less so if you aren’t any of those three.

Finally I hope very much hope your domestic situation has calmed down now. I know all too well how that feels even as a male. Take care. We are all here to help. X

Very sound advice Sundog x

 

[Sundog]

Very sound advice Sundog x

Thanks. I have my moments x

 

[WinterSnow]

Unfortunately I see more and more people on here with failure to provide (FTP) charges. It’s not the “easy” answer and often the hardest route.

 

[Sundog]

I may be way off-beam here and don’t mean to sound ageist or offend. But it’s nothing new with this age group. They’re the first whose folks never really had a major, war (or its after-effects) and it’s been a relatively painless few years prior to Brexit of course.

The 2008 GFC we were not allowed to feel as much as we would/should have; ‘austerity’ was very much a lip-service label rather than something to feel crushed by (we aint seen nothing yet BTW - wait until another big American bank goes; it will not be as soft a landing for them or their bully currency next time and they know it).

Meanwhile back to the millennials… . Sadly it’s the first generation as said above that’s had all of the convenience and less of the hassle/worry. They’ve grown up around phones that talk you through your day and entertain you (from birth).

And they’re softer as a result. Whether it’s gender identity, anxiety or other mental health woes, allergies or physical health… this generation has all of the understanding, excuses and modcons they can want. It’s no wonder we as the generation above them have taught them it’s OK to cry off. I’ve never known a demographic better at making excuses, or better at denying their responsibilities. I think that has to play a part in why so many decide not to because they in all likelihood can’t believe what’s happening to them. We Generation X-ers didn’t have it much less easy, but at least most of us learn to wipe our own arse. This poor generation have had it all done for them, and it’s our fault really.

 

[Coostietightner123]

After never even speaking with a police officer my whole life, my first contact with police began after returning from Afghan. It’s an insidious thing. You’re not aware of any issues until everything goes “bang” then everything starts to fall apart. Then followed a 5 year period of losing my wife of 30 years, two toxic relationships. Then followed a genuine near death experience which turned my whole belief system and faith into question. My life at that point was out of control. I do understand that none of that counts when it comes to “Putting the keys into the Ignition”
If mental health issues were a back door to avoiding a ban, then I’m sure we would have an epidemic unfolding every Monday morning. Thing’s always change though. Except the judiciary and DVLA. They see alcohol as the main determining factor in all things drink driving related. I’d go as far as to say, that in most cases Alcohol isn’t the start point or the problem. Alcohol is a symptom of the underlying issue, which is normally mental health. You can punish someone as much as you want and push them further into the abyss, but you are never going to solve the problem unless you deal with their underlying mental health issues. In other words punishing the symptom rather than solve the real problem. Just my thoughts on a slack morning

 

[anemone]

After never even speaking with a police officer my whole life, my first contact with police began after returning from Afghan. It’s an insidious thing. You’re not aware of any issues until everything goes “bang” then everything starts to fall apart. Then followed a 5 year period of losing my wife of 30 years, two toxic relationships. Then followed a genuine near death experience which turned my whole belief system and faith into question. My life at that point was out of control. I do understand that none of that counts when it comes to “Putting the keys into the Ignition”
If mental health issues were a back door to avoiding a ban, then I’m sure we would have an epidemic unfolding every Monday morning. Thing’s always change though. Except the judiciary and DVLA. They see alcohol as the main determining factor in all things drink driving related. I’d go as far as to say, that in most cases Alcohol isn’t the start point or the problem. Alcohol is a symptom of the underlying issue, which is normally mental health. You can punish someone as much as you want and push them further into the abyss, but you are never going to solve the problem unless you deal with their underlying mental health issues. In other words punishing the symptom rather than solve the real problem. Just my thoughts on a slack morning

Agree 100%

 

[anemone]

Hi all

I’m new to the forum but have been avidly reading as many of the posts about failure to provide cases as possible due to my court case being in the next two weeks.

Two weeks ago I stupidly got into my car to flee a domestic situation with my now ex partner, after having a few drinks earlier in the evening. I was pulled by the police due to him having called them and breathalysed with a reading of 65. I was taken to the station and given three attempts to provide.. I honestly tried my best but only my third attempt gave a reading of 45. The police then charged me with failure to provide, gave me a court date and then let me go. My issue is that I didn’t refuse the test, I just couldn’t muster enough puff to get two decent readings. If the officer badge given me a fourth attempt I may have managed a second reading but he wasn’t having it. I wasn’t given the breath results either…

I’m now in bits as to what to plea.. I’ve got one of those online solicitors who are telling me to plead not guilty so they can see the CCTV and see whether there was an issue with procedure or the machine but I’m a realist and know that they promise the earth and paid handsomely however the outcome.. I’m regretting bothering with them in the first place

I just want to be realistic.. it’s my first offence and I’ve had a clean driving license for over ten years and just want this over with.. is there any way of doing a plea bargain and asking for the charge to be changed to a drink drive charge due to me honestly attempting to blow a reading?? I’ve messed up, that I know but I really did try

Thanks for your help in advance

How many attempts are they supposed to give you? I don't see that specified on the MGDDA form. I asked this question months ago on here and no one responded. My family member failed to provide at roadside and then again same problem at police station--3 tries allegedly 'failed' but it's not clear from the CCTV exactly what was wrong--and they allowed him to keep going until they got two 'acceptable' (i.e. over the limit) readings. Both readings identical which does happens but is highly unusual. The number of 'tries' seems to vary from one constabulary to another. Whatever the case, they HAVE to BY LAW give you a copy of the results--that alone is a breach of PACE. Also, I have experience with BOTH so-called 'online solicitors' AND the regional/local defence solicitors. There are advantages and disadvantages to both but don't disparage/rule out the 'online' ones--there are good and bad. And I'm beginning to think the specialist motor solicitors are actually better at dealing with the specific drink drive/failure to provide issues than 'straight' defence solicitors who does the odd drink drive case now and then.

 

[Coostietightner123]

How many attempts are they supposed to give you? I don't see that specified on the MGDDA form. I asked this question months ago on here and no one responded. My family member failed to provide at roadside and then again same problem at police station--3 tries allegedly 'failed' but it's not clear from the CCTV exactly what was wrong--and they allowed him to keep going until they got two 'acceptable' (i.e. over the limit) readings. Both readings identical which does happens but is highly unusual. The number of 'tries' seems to vary from one constabulary to another. Whatever the case, they HAVE to BY LAW give you a copy of the results--that alone is a breach of PACE. Also, I have experience with BOTH so-called 'online solicitors' AND the regional/local defence solicitors. There are advantages and disadvantages to both but don't disparage/rule out the 'online' ones--there are good and bad. And I'm beginning to think the specialist motor solicitors are actually better at dealing with the specific drink drive/failure to provide issues than 'straight' defence solicitors who does the odd drink drive case now and then.

It really depends, like most things in life. There’s good and bad everywhere. You have to ask your local solicitor if they have the the relevant experience to deal with the case, ask them to demonstrate this. Who’s to say that your local or duty solicitor isn’t as experienced or even more so, than a “specialist solicitor “
It’s about taking ownership and doing your homework.

 

[Sundog]

For someone who’s been to court already, you’re either losing perspective or there’s something you’re not saying.


“And I'm beginning to think the specialist motor solicitors are actually better at dealing with the specific drink drive/failure to provide issues than 'straight' defence solicitors who does the odd drink drive case now and then.”

Where is your court case, Jeddah or somewhere? Spend a day in the court I was convicted in; you’ll see just how ‘now and then’ DUI convictions come up. The guy before me was a DUI conviction. And the guy after. It’s common.

I used my own brief (not a specialist, just a local guy who wasn’t that expensive, new the court well and seemed reasonable) but I still wished I’d gone with the DS. The outcome in all likelihood would have been NO DIFFERENT.

I think entrusting your power and money to these people is equivalent to giving the same 2.5k-5k to a psychic or a faith healer. It might work, and no one can categorically 100% wont, but actually yes they can. It won’t. And neither will this.

Just be honest with yourself. The truth tends to always come out anyway. Just go with it.

 

[stu12341234]

It really depends, like most things in life. There’s good and bad everywhere. You have to ask your local solicitor if they have the the relevant experience to deal with the case, ask them to demonstrate this. Who’s to say that your local or duty solicitor isn’t as experienced or even more so, than a “specialist solicitor “
It’s about taking ownership and doing your homework.

Hi,

This is exactly what I would suggest, find a local firm if possible and within said firm find the best one that deals with DD convictions, that's what I did she was great! I won (Albeit felt like hell awaiting trial) I also had 3 attempts but one I blew mouth alcohol which also cannot be used.

But they wanted blood which is well documented by my GP that I have never gave a blood sample. A finger prick fine, in my veins no way still to this day.

Keep your head up.

Kind regards,




Stu

 

[Coostietightner123]

For someone who’s been to court already, you’re either losing perspective or there’s something you’re not saying.


“And I'm beginning to think the specialist motor solicitors are actually better at dealing with the specific drink drive/failure to provide issues than 'straight' defence solicitors who does the odd drink drive case now and then.”

Where is your court case, Jeddah or somewhere? Spend a day in the court I was convicted in; you’ll see just how ‘now and then’ DUI convictions come up. The guy before me was a DUI conviction. And the guy after. It’s common.

I used my own brief (not a specialist, just a local guy who wasn’t that expensive, new the court well and seemed reasonable) but I still wished I’d gone with the DS. The outcome in all likelihood would have been NO DIFFERENT.

I think entrusting your power and money to these people is equivalent to giving the same 2.5k-5k to a psychic or a faith healer. It might work, and no one can categorically 100% wont, but actually yes they can. It won’t. And neither will this.

Just be honest with yourself. The truth tends to always come out anyway. Just go with it.

Very true, and good advice. I’ve said before. I tried a million ways to try and wriggle my way out of it. To find an edge that nobody had used before. Guess what, they’ve heard it all before. And at the end of this, when you sit down and look at things. Nothing but nothing takes away from the fact you drank and put the keys in the ignition. And if you manage to convince yourself you’re innocent when you know you’re not. Well, you’ll be back on here in no time. Own it, do the time, use a DS they are well known to the courts and know the score. Don’t throw your money your time and emotions at something that’s not going to be.

 

[SS13]

Thanks for your response everyone…

I’m thoroughly ashamed of my decision to drink and drive and fully accept the consequences of my actions… I couldn’t be more sorry

It’s the failure to provide charge that is not sitting well with me at this point… especially when I tried my best with the three attempts I was given under the circumstances. I know it’s down to the discretion of the station as to how many attempts you get but if the officer operating the machine had given me a fourth attempt, I could’ve supplied a second sample and therefore a different charge

Just seems unfair… but that’s life..

 

[Coostietightner123]

Thanks for your response everyone…

I’m thoroughly ashamed of my decision to drink and drive and fully accept the consequences of my actions… I couldn’t be more sorry

It’s the failure to provide charge that is not sitting well with me at this point… especially when I tried my best with the three attempts I was given under the circumstances. I know it’s down to the discretion of the station as to how many attempts you get but if the officer operating the machine had given me a fourth attempt, I could’ve supplied a second sample and therefore a different charge

Just seems unfair… but that’s life..

The police in my case couldn’t even place me at the scene of the accident (bump with an abandoned vehicle) they couldn’t even ascertain if at the point of the collision if I was over the limit. But my DS assured me that if I pleaded not guilty, the sheriff WOULD WITHOUT DOUBT find me guilty and punish me severely for lying about it. So yes, life’s a bitch unfortunately sometimes. But it is what it is. Just out of curiosity in case I’ve missed something. What makes you think you’d have been able to blow on a fourth occasion? I’m not being an arse because none of us judge here. I’m not opposed to “getting off” with something either. If people can, then fair play to them. It all comes down to “did I do it” if the answer is yes, then we have to accept what comes with it I guess,
Listen, things are rarely as bad as they seem, I’m sure once it’s all over, your head will return to normal and you’ll make the best of your circumstances, and probably feel a lot better

 

[Coostietightner123]

Maybe if the cctv has you begging it pleading to be given a fourth opportunity then, you may have a case, but I really doubt it, like it or not, the sheriffs and magistrates will undoubtedly side with law enforcement. And they will say, three attempts is adequate. I was told if I failed to provide twice I’d be charged with refusing or failing to provide

 

[SS13]

The machine at the police station felt very different to the machine I blew into at the roadside, just seemed a lot harder somehow. I failed on the first two attempts at the station (in between crying and getting myself together) but on the third try I’d composed myself enough to get a super strong blow, to the point I thought I was going to pass out. It’s a possibility I could’ve failed a fourth try but I’d got to grips with the machine by then is what I’m saying