Section 4(2) Unfit to drive through drink

Convicted Driver Insurance

ScaredWitless

New Member
Sorry - copied from 'Ask a Solicitor' section so people can respond.

Following a regrettable loud one-off argument with my other half in which we had both earlier drank, the police were called by a neighbour. By the time they had arrived, I had gone out to my car (a 2020 Audi Q3) to give my other half space, with the intention of sleeping in the back. The car was parked outside the house, not on the driveway. I got in the front of the car (just instinct as a driver) and attempted to text my mother for advice regarding the argument, but the car alarm kept going off due to the internal motion sensors (I've since realized this was likely because I had locked the car, and didnt realise due to being upset regarding the situation with my missus), so I put my key in the ignition to stop this happening (I have a notification on the Audi iPhone app, showing the last time the internal sensor went off with time/date). I text my other half explaining that I couldn't drive due to the drink and asked to come back in the house to sleep on the sofa. I also stated the car alarm keeps going off. 15 mins later, the police arrived.

I was breathalyzed at the station and blew 53ug in breath. I also have a previous drink-drive conviction from 2008.

Also worth mentioning, we live just off a farm, surrounded by fields. There are 3 houses here - the house attached to ours and the one at the end of the road, effectively ending the road. The road/gravel track we live on is not council maintained (no street lighting, no maintenance of ground such as pavement, etc, owners of the houses all club together to pay for fresh gravel to be laid every so often), you would only drive up this lane to get to one of the three houses, and I believe this is technically private land.
However, a public right of way footpath crosses over/through the track. I was not parked on this track. This all happened late evening, around 11.30pm. As explained, we are surrounded by fields with no street lighting, no lighting on/around the track hence, no-one would be travelling along this path at that time, as you would struggle even with a torch.

I was hoping to mount a defense based on the fact that I can prove I had no intention of driving (and wanted to come back in the house) based on txt messages, the fact I was still sat in the car outside the house by the time the police arrived, the Audi app proving the internal sensor went off, corroborating my explanation. Also, the fact that the road/track we live on is technically not public land, with little chance of Joe Public being around at the time.

I've spoken to a few solicitors, and had various feedback. Most seem to think I'd have a defense based on the txt messages stating I knew I couldnt drive anywhere and indicating my desire to return to the house.

Thoughts?
 
Sorry - copied from 'Ask a Solicitor' section so people can respond.

Following a regrettable loud one-off argument with my other half in which we had both earlier drank, the police were called by a neighbour. By the time they had arrived, I had gone out to my car (a 2020 Audi Q3) to give my other half space, with the intention of sleeping in the back. The car was parked outside the house, not on the driveway. I got in the front of the car (just instinct as a driver) and attempted to text my mother for advice regarding the argument, but the car alarm kept going off due to the internal motion sensors (I've since realized this was likely because I had locked the car, and didnt realise due to being upset regarding the situation with my missus), so I put my key in the ignition to stop this happening (I have a notification on the Audi iPhone app, showing the last time the internal sensor went off with time/date). I text my other half explaining that I couldn't drive due to the drink and asked to come back in the house to sleep on the sofa. I also stated the car alarm keeps going off. 15 mins later, the police arrived.

I was breathalyzed at the station and blew 53ug in breath. I also have a previous drink-drive conviction from 2008.

Also worth mentioning, we live just off a farm, surrounded by fields. There are 3 houses here - the house attached to ours and the one at the end of the road, effectively ending the road. The road/gravel track we live on is not council maintained (no street lighting, no maintenance of ground such as pavement, etc, owners of the houses all club together to pay for fresh gravel to be laid every so often), you would only drive up this lane to get to one of the three houses, and I believe this is technically private land.
However, a public right of way footpath crosses over/through the track. I was not parked on this track. This all happened late evening, around 11.30pm. As explained, we are surrounded by fields with no street lighting, no lighting on/around the track hence, no-one would be travelling along this path at that time, as you would struggle even with a torch.

I was hoping to mount a defense based on the fact that I can prove I had no intention of driving (and wanted to come back in the house) based on txt messages, the fact I was still sat in the car outside the house by the time the police arrived, the Audi app proving the internal sensor went off, corroborating my explanation. Also, the fact that the road/track we live on is technically not public land, with little chance of Joe Public being around at the time.

I've spoken to a few solicitors, and had various feedback. Most seem to think I'd have a defense based on the txt messages stating I knew I couldnt drive anywhere and indicating my desire to return to the house.

Thoughts?
I think with a solicitor, you may be able to prove no intent to drive - but it is a risk. Magistrates have heard it all before, and without 100% proof, I feel you may be pushing back the tide! Presume you have been charged with 'in charge' rather than drink driving?

If it is 'in charge', and your previous conviction is for 'drink driving' then the saving grace is that it will not be a mandatory 3 year ban as it isn't counted as a qualifying offence. You would become a HRO however, as it is qualifying for this classification which would mean a DVLA medical before your licence is returned.

It doesn't matter if it is a private road, if there is potential public access then you are committing an offence. Whether people were present or not is not of concern to them. People have previously thought they would get off after being caught in supermarket car parks, even with the gates closed and locked - without joy!
 
I've spoken to a few solicitors, and had various feedback. Most seem to think I'd have a defense based on the txt messages stating I knew I couldnt drive anywhere and indicating my desire to return to the house.

Drink driving and being drunk in charge of a vehicle are two clear cut offences and there's little you can do to beat the charges despite what many solicitors would have you believe. I doubt the text messages would assist much in defence but if you want to pursue it then I suggest either represent yourself or make use of the duty solicitor when it comes to your first hearing. I see no reason to fork out on expensive solicitors over something so simple as text messages to use as your defence.
 
I think with a solicitor, you may be able to prove no intent to drive - but it is a risk. Magistrates have heard it all before, and without 100% proof, I feel you may be pushing back the tide! Presume you have been charged with 'in charge' rather than drink driving?

If it is 'in charge', and your previous conviction is for 'drink driving' then the saving grace is that it will not be a mandatory 3 year ban as it isn't counted as a qualifying offence. You would become a HRO however, as it is qualifying for this classification which would mean a DVLA medical before your licence is returned.

It doesn't matter if it is a private road, if there is potential public access then you are committing an offence. Whether people were present or not is not of concern to them. People have previously thought they would get off after being caught in supermarket car parks, even with the gates closed and locked - without joy!
Hi Tom, agree with 99% of that, however as already stated, my ex wife’s case was dropped on the grounds that it was an “unnamed” road. It was in Scotland which may have been slightly different. Also it wasn’t a private road, bu unnamed. The public did have access to it though. So a bit strange. But the solicitor did state unequivocally that it was because the road was “unnamed”
 
So at the moment, I'm leaning towards just pleading guilty and getting it over with. Its causing massive stress in our household, and we just want it over with at this point. I would hope I would just get 10 points and a fine, bearing in mind the txt msgs.

My main concern is regarding work. I work in a profession that requires security clearance and NPPV3. I'm obviously going to have to declare all this to work/NCSC. Has anyone here had any experience with that? Should I be worried about a recent prosecution for this affecting my clearance? (My original DD prosecution was already spent when I first applied for SC)
 
My main concern is regarding work. I work in a profession that requires security clearance and NPPV3. I'm obviously going to have to declare all this to work/NCSC. Has anyone here had any experience with that? Should I be worried about a recent prosecution for this affecting my clearance? (My original DD prosecution was already spent when I first applied for SC)
I'm afraid this is not easy to answer, as it does depend entirely on your job and employer. It goes without saying that if a conviction isn't declared to your vetting team when they find out your SC clearance will be revoked, but as long as you declare it it will be at the discretion of your employer to decide if it means termination. Some jobs that require NPPV3 with SC will definitely terminate your contract when you receive any criminal conviction, some will not.

I should add it is conditional with NPPV3 + SC that you also declare an arrest and/or investigation for a criminal offence. So you should have already informed your employer and if not you should do so immediately as they can revoke clearance for not disclosing that too.
 
So at the moment, I'm leaning towards just pleading guilty and getting it over with. Its causing massive stress in our household, and we just want it over with at this point. I would hope I would just get 10 points and a fine, bearing in mind the txt msgs.

My main concern is regarding work. I work in a profession that requires security clearance and NPPV3. I'm obviously going to have to declare all this to work/NCSC. Has anyone here had any experience with that? Should I be worried about a recent prosecution for this affecting my clearance? (My original DD prosecution was already spent when I first applied for SC)
I think it might affect you tbh but you can’t change what has happened so ultimately what will be; will be.
 
I think with a solicitor, you may be able to prove no intent to drive - but it is a risk. Magistrates have heard it all before, and without 100% proof, I feel you may be pushing back the tide! Presume you have been charged with 'in charge' rather than drink driving?

If it is 'in charge', and your previous conviction is for 'drink driving' then the saving grace is that it will not be a mandatory 3 year ban as it isn't counted as a qualifying offence. You would become a HRO however, as it is qualifying for this classification which would mean a DVLA medical before your licence is returned.

It doesn't matter if it is a private road, if there is potential public access then you are committing an offence. Whether people were present or not is not of concern to them. People have previously thought they would get off after being caught in supermarket car parks, even with the gates closed and locked - without joy!
Yes, I've been charged with being "in charge". It seems like such a flimsy law, like I'm being prosecuted for something I 'might' have done. Surely its up to the prosecution to prove I was going to drive?! Like a solicitor said to me yesterday, yes I had the keys in the ignition, but the car wasnt started. I could have just been listening to the radio or wanted the internal light on (or in fact, wanted the alarm to stop going off)?
 
Yes, I've been charged with being "in charge". It seems like such a flimsy law, like I'm being prosecuted for something I 'might' have done. Surely its up to the prosecution to prove I was going to drive?! Like a solicitor said to me yesterday, yes I had the keys in the ignition, but the car wasnt started. I could have just been listening to the radio or wanted the internal light on (or in fact, wanted the alarm to stop going off)?
It’s up to you to prove you weren’t! Unfortunately keys in the ignition doesn’t help I’m afraid. Get yourself a local solicitor (not an online promise all) and take their advice. I agree it is a bizarre law that is easy to fall foul too.
 
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