Road traffic act procedure

Convicted Driver Insurance

supershunter

New Member
I was wondering if it is legal to write out a few sheets of paper and pass them to a police officer who has pulled you up something like this while remaining silent at all times.

1: I have stopped under your powers of 163 of the road traffic so this part has been completed and I'm also live streaming our encounter for my safety so nothing will be stored on the device I'm doing it from.

2: If you require me to produce my documents under 164 of the road traffic act I cannot do so at the roadside as under police website guidance I do not keep my documents in my vehicle but am happy to produce at my local police station within 7 days.

3: If you require me to tell you my details under 165 of the road traffic act I have written them on a piece of paper and will pass it to you and would like it returned when you finish with it.

4: I have had no alcohol or narcotics nor is there anything ilegal on me or in the vehicle or weapons of any kind.

I was going to ask about if they give you a roadside bretherliser do you legally have to remove the plastic tube after doing one?

Regards
 
Whilst it is legal to pass any sheet of paper to the police officer, just don’t expect it to be accepted be be given a cheery “goodbye”
How does he know the persons details written on the sheet are yours? You could have simply written anyone’s name, date of birth etc on the paper. That is why he asks you for your details. Agreed, could have memorised someone else’s details but it isn’t just WHAT you say, but HOW you say it that gives the clues that you could be giving false information.
When you start down the track of saying (attitude, not talking of course.....) “I know my rights” then you are inviting “and I know my powers to inspect many details on your vehicle sir” response from the officer. I was once asked the same question on a Drink Drive Rehabilitation Course at Solihull and said that to be like that you would have to be driving “a brand new Range Rover” to be confident that there was nothing wrong with your car. There was a large laugh...... from a person who said that they worked at the Range Rover assembly plant and that was no guarantee that your vehicle would have no faults.....!

To be honest, behaviour like that is called “failing the attitude test” and is likely to have the officer suspect that he could “smell alcohol“ through the crack in the window top or feel from the manner of your driving that you had consumed alcohol and therefore want you to supply a breath test. Failure to respond to the request would see you arrested...... I am not saying this is correct to do this, just giving you a reality check as to where “I know my rights” approach with the police might get you.
99.9% of the time a stop check is done and dusted in about 5 minutes, why do you feel you want to risk aggravating the officer who stops you? Perhaps you are a Freeman of the Land type person, but if you are, you would not recognise the need to have a driving licence and have your own name that is not recognised in the system.....

i am puzzled about you asking about the legality of having to remove the plastic tube after “doing one”
Do you mean the police officer? The instructions for use of the device say to use a fresh tube each time, He / She would change the tube and put a fresh one before asking you to blow into it.
If you are asking if the driver has to legally remove it then the answer is clearly NO. The officer might well either take it off and offer it to you, or offer you to remove it, but there is no legal requirement to do so.
As the roadside breath test is only a screening device and not evidence (you are prosecuted on the result of the evidential test at the police station) then what happens with the tube has not bearing on your drink drive case.
 
Thanks for your reply
Just to let you know that I am not some sort of campaigner or someone who thinks I am above the law.
The reason for asking about the tube is that I had a breathe test and passed it, when the officer demanded I took the plastic tube I said no at first he then said he would charge me with obstruction. A colleague was charged with littering when he dropped his by the roadside and that is what they believe is you might throw it out of frustration.
When it comes to pre writing details on a piece of paper including license number date of birth etc and it is all correct and corresponds with the vehicle is that not the same or better than verbally saying it ?
Many thanks again for answering my questions

Regards
 
If you have details pre-written on a sheet of A4, all it will do is arouse the suspicion of the officer that you have something to hide. The obvious thing that springs to mind is that the written owner and vehicle details correspond with the PNC but you may not be that person. Alarm bells start ringing and the police will dig far deeper than if you had just given a verbal response. At best they will think 'attitude problem' at worst, illegal driver.

Nothing illegal about any of your 4 points in the original post but all will arouse suspicion and invoke further investigation of you and your vehicle.
 
AlanT73 said:
If you have details pre-written on a sheet of A4, all it will do is arouse the suspicion of the officer that you have something to hide. The obvious thing that springs to mind is that the written owner and vehicle details correspond with the PNC but you may not be that person. Alarm bells start ringing and the police will dig far deeper than if you had just given a verbal response. At best they will think 'attitude problem' at worst, illegal driver.

Nothing illegal about any of your 4 points in the original post but all will arouse suspicion and invoke further investigation of you and your vehicle.
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I will put a photo copy of my license which shows my face so they can see my face as well then but thanks for the advice

Regards
 
You're very welcome. As it's not that difficult to superimpose a photo onto a photocopied licence this will also encourage further investigation by the police. Let us know how you get on if and when you get the chance to put your plan into action.
 
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AlanT73 said:
You're very welcome. As it's not that difficult to superimpose a photo onto a photocopied licence this will also encourage further investigation by the police. Let us know how you get on if and when you get the chance to put your plan into action.
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Will do but hopefully will never need too.


Regards
 
Oh dear, PC plod will be having fun soon........Thousands of people are stopped every day, 5 minutes of their time and they are on their way. Superhunter wants to find an awkward way to deal with a simple situation, then have to go out of his way to have to queue to produce his documents at the police station, which will take him far longer than getting it done at the roadside.... just so he can not be obliged to speak..... because that is his right.
I was a police officer for 30 years and I never saw anyone threatened with ’obstruction’ for refusing to take the tube after being breath tested. There again, I never had someone pass me a piece of paper with their ‘alleged’ details on and refuse to speak to me. I i had have done, I don’t support I would have waved him on with a friendly ‘you have a nice day now, so sorry for inconveniencing you.....”
 
price1367 said:
Oh dear, PC plod will be having fun soon........Thousands of people are stopped every day, 5 minutes of their time and they are on their way. Superhunter wants to find an awkward way to deal with a simple situation, then have to go out of his way to have to queue to produce his documents at the police station, which will take him far longer than getting it done at the roadside.... just so he can not be obliged to speak..... because that is his right.
I was a police officer for 30 years and I never saw anyone threatened with ’obstruction’ for refusing to take the tube after being breath tested. There again, I never had someone pass me a piece of paper with their ‘alleged’ details on and refuse to speak to me. I i had have done, I don’t support I would have waved him on with a friendly ‘you have a nice day now, so sorry for inconveniencing you.....”
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I was asking if it was okay to do what is the big deal ? if I decided to do this all information would be correct, I would not give force information or lie as I travel legally. What is the difference if I verbally give my details or right them down and pass them to you as long as they are correct.How do you know I don't have a speech impediment or am mute ? You seem very angry about this why what is the problem? As regards the breathe test which happened to me which came back 0 I was told this if I did not remove it
 
I am not angry, just dont see where you are going with this. In effect you are asking “what is the least I can do to legally cooperate with a police officer when I am stopped?” You say all the information will be correct but the officer does not know this.
A Speech impediment or being mute would not stop you opening your window fully. The act of opening it a fraction and refusing to speak is going to rouse suspicion in the police officer that you have something to hide. The officer is legally entitled to examine your vehicle to see if it is legal. Generally they dont do the full thing, but trying your proposed way of dealing with being stopped is likely to make him want to exercise his right to do so.
When an officer stops someone is the reason he asks you to say your details, rather than produce a written account of who you say you are is that it enables the officer to assess HOW you give your details. If you give incorrect details you are likely to stumble over, say, your date of birth against your age, you might stumble over how long you have owned the vehicle. If he is suspicious of you, he will ask you what is in the boot as someone who has stolen the vehicle is unlikely to know.
When I was a custody officer I had a prisoner brought in who was going to be a quick ‘interview and out’ I asked him for his details and each time he did not reply. I wrote on a piece of paper ‘are you deaf and dumb?’ He motioned to be given the pen and wrote his reply... “No Dickhead” I then wrote on the same paper “You are going to cell 3” and is was some time before he was dealt with.

I am just trying to point out where behaving as you suggest when being stopped by the police is likely to lead. Oh and don't forget to write on your piece of paper which police station you want to produce your documents because he will ask you that. All told you will have wasted a lot of your own time in doing this, but it is your choice.
 
price1367 said:
I am not angry, just dont see where you are going with this. In effect you are asking “what is the least I can do to legally cooperate with a police officer when I am stopped?” You say all the information will be correct but the officer does not know this.
A Speech impediment or being mute would not stop you opening your window fully. The act of opening it a fraction and refusing to speak is going to rouse suspicion in the police officer that you have something to hide. The officer is legally entitled to examine your vehicle to see if it is legal. Generally they dont do the full thing, but trying your proposed way of dealing with being stopped is likely to make him want to exercise his right to do so.
When an officer stops someone is the reason he asks you to say your details, rather than produce a written account of who you say you are is that it enables the officer to assess HOW you give your details. If you give incorrect details you are likely to stumble over, say, your date of birth against your age, you might stumble over how long you have owned the vehicle. If he is suspicious of you, he will ask you what is in the boot as someone who has stolen the vehicle is unlikely to know.
When I was a custody officer I had a prisoner brought in who was going to be a quick ‘interview and out’ I asked him for his details and each time he did not reply. I wrote on a piece of paper ‘are you deaf and dumb?’ He motioned to be given the pen and wrote his reply... “No Dickhead” I then wrote on the same paper “You are going to cell 3” and is was some time before he was dealt with.

I am just trying to point out where behaving as you suggest when being stopped by the police is likely to lead. Oh and don't forget to write on your piece of paper which police station you want to produce your documents because he will ask you that. All told you will have wasted a lot of your own time in doing this, but it is your choice.
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I never said I wouldn't open my window very hard on my motorcycle though would be very happy to open my panniers. I have nothing to hide and do not carry anything I should not if you suggest that I don't write anything about not having anything in the vehicle then I will not if I decided to do this at all. Most documents are on email now anyway except your license of cause. Very happy to do all the things I have to just wanted advice. If you look at websites ask a policeman they recommend not leaving documents in your vehicle. Good night and stay safe
 
I think this is just a wind up and will save my time to answer sensible questions.
 
supershunter said:
I never said I wouldn't open my window very hard on my motorcycle though would be very happy to open my panniers. I have nothing to hide and do not carry anything I should not if you suggest that I don't write anything about not having anything in the vehicle then I will not if I decided to do this at all. Most documents are on email now anyway except your license of cause. Very happy to do all the things I have to just wanted advice. If you look at websites ask a policeman they recommend not leaving documents in your vehicle. Good night and stay safe
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If you have nothing to hide, why take this approach? It makes no sense. You say you want advice yet when told that it will just cause you more problems you come back with a reason why you would still pursue the same bizarre paper based silent interaction with the police. It smacks a little of the 'Auditing Britain' videos on YouTube where someone records the outside of a police station or prison with a view to 'getting a rise' out of the staff. Invariably they are polite and the 'auditor' just comes across as faintly ridiculous. You will get the same polite approach from the police with your scheme but it will take 20 x longer to deal with you and they will make the process as difficult as possible by checking every tyre and light etc and if they find something, instead of a warning you will be getting a ticket. If you think that's worth it to make some sort of point then knock yourself out. Have a listen to Angry Young Man by Billy Joel. It could be written for you.
 
For what it’s worth, last week I was stopped whilst on my way to the supermarket (not locally but it’s the closest one to where I live) not in my car, however I was in one that I was insured to drive and had taken with the owner’s permission. I was the only car on the road and it was a bit suspicious when an unmarked bike was sat in my wing mirror for a few miles. I clocked him fairly early on as he was the only biker actually doing the speed limit on this particular stretch of road.

I dealt with this as I would have done with anything else; I pulled over at the first opportunity when buzzed, provided my license, details of the vehicle and details of my insurance as well as the company insurance policy which covers me to drive the car. I was breathalysed and obviously returned a negative result at which point the officer thanked me for my time and sent me on my way without any further action.

On the contrary, when I was stopped, I could have been a real piece of work, not helped the officer in his enquiries and instead shoved a piece of paper in his face stating the above. It probably wouldn’t have got me anywhere quickly (the supermarket was about to shut!) and resulted in the process being dragged out longer than the 5 or so minutes I was stopped for and possibly leaving with a ticket for some small discrepancy or misdemeanour (the officer was following me for a while and my driving wasn’t exactly impeccable).

I think to sum it up, the police are out there to do a job, so you might as well help them and be on with your day rather than trying to hold them up for whatever reason resulting in everyone’s lives being made more difficult.

MM
 
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Medicine Man said:
For what it’s worth, last week I was stopped whilst on my way to the supermarket (not locally but it’s the closest one to where I live) not in my car, however I was in one that I was insured to drive and had taken with the owner’s permission. I was the only car on the road and it was a bit suspicious when an unmarked bike was sat in my wing mirror for a few miles.

I dealt with this as I would have done with anything else; I pulled over at the first opportunity when buzzed, provided my license, details of the vehicle and details of my insurance as well as the company insurance policy which covers me to drive the car. I was breathalysed and obviously returned a negative result at which point the officer thanked me for my time and sent me on my way without any further action.

On the contrary, when I was stopped, I could have been a real piece of work, not helped the officer in his enquiries and instead shoved a piece of paper in his face stating the above. It probably wouldn’t have got me anywhere quickly (the supermarket was about to shut!) and resulted in the process being dragged out longer than the 5 or so minutes I was stopped for and possibly leaving with a ticket for some small discrepancy or misdemeanour (the officer was following me for a while and my driving wasn’t exactly impeccable).

I think to sum it up, the police are out there to do a job, so you might as well help them and be on with your day rather than trying to hold them up for whatever reason resulting in everyone’s lives being made more difficult.
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Thanks for your input But I am merely asking for if it is legal to do this. The breathalyser thing happened to me over 12 years ago in a hire van I gave all my details and decided to give me one even though he did not suspect me of drinking I blew a fat zero and was not charged with anything. Anyway I had a nice positive chat with a road traffic officer today about what I was asking and I would just leave it there. Many thanks to the first respondent on this thread about this issue
Regards
 
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