Newton hearing advise

Convicted Driver Insurance

JamesJ1983

Member
Good morning

And thank you for taking the time to read this,

Looking for some advise i was arrested last October and charged with drink driving I didnt deny drink driving however I had drank after i had arrived home, so went down the route of getting a solicitor and having bacs test done to try and get a reading i was happy to plead on,

I blew 129 at the station so thats the point the prosecution wants to charge me at

My expert said the reading when driving would have been between 60-75

When I went to court for sentencing the case was dismissed and the judge called for a newton hearing as the 2 figures in his mind were too far apart, I would have been fine if he had just split the difference im expecting a large ban just want prison or alot of community service hours removing as an option,

My question is whats the newton hearing going to be like ? How much involvement will I have ? What sort of things will they ask ?

Any advise from people who have been in this situation would be appreciated

Thanks
 
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Newton hearings do not happen often, and only came into existence some 35 years ago.
this is the description of the Newton process:

“The Newton Hearing itself operates like a "mini trial", with a judge deciding the disputed points based upon testimony and submissions, rather than a jury.[3] The burden of proof is on the prosecution, who must prove their case beyond reasonable doubt.[3]

For a defendant, there is a balance of risk and benefit to consider. As the Newton hearing takes court time, resources, and perhaps witness testimony, if unsuccessful it will reduce any sentencing credit that might otherwise have been obtained. This aspect has been criticized, on the basis that no such risk exists for the prosecutors, and therefore the Newton Hearing could "allow unrealistic, bullying or foolhardy prosecutors to force defendants to choose between having a Newton hearing and playing it safe".[4] In this sense a Newton hearing may be seen as stacked heavily against a defendant, who must prove the entirety of their concern in order not to suffer from it:[4]

"The practice operates as a disincentive to opt for a Newton hearing. Many defence advocates avoid Newton hearings because, unless they are resolved entirely in the defendant’s favour, some credit is likely to be lost and it may be that any gains made by the Newton hearing are swallowed up (or worse, outweighed) by the reduction in credit... There is no “remission” for being successful in part, save that the credit for pleading was not reduced further. In the situation where D has required the prosecution to prove its assertions to the criminal standard and the result has been a success and a defeat on each side, why should D be punished, and the prosecution not? Is it not D’s right to require such assertions to be proved? The situation appears to be stacked against the defence, to induce acquiescence where arguments may legitimately be taken against the prosecution..." [4]”

Clear? Well perhaps not.....

So there is a guilty plea, but the case for the defence is “I am not as guilty as the prosecution make out”.
It is still for the prosecution to prove the case beyond reasonable doubt. In the case of drink driving however, both the prosecution and the defence case is that you are guilty, the Newton issue is how naughty were you, because the reading doesn’t get you off, it does, however, affect the punishment you should receive.
I would anticipate that at the hearing the prosecution will outline the offence again, they the prosecution will have their turn, as before.
in a normal case there is no obligation for the defendant to give evidence, but because your side depends on the credibility of the reading, I would expect that not only will the technical expert report be submitted to the court, bur it should be backed up by evidence on oath from you that what is in the report about what you drank and when is correct.
I think a copy of the expert report would need to be submitted to the prosecution before the hearing. If they objected to it on the day, the magistrates could decide to not admit it as evidence. If they object in advance, then it is open to you to have the expert to attend in person to give evidence.
A reading of 119 would attract a ban of 23-28 months. A reading of 60-75 would attract a ban of 17-22 months so there is a big difference. Hopefully your solicitor is experienced in drink driving matters as this is outside the scope of a general solicitor!
 
thanks for the reply

Both mine and the prosecutions bacs tests were submitted before the last hearing and my solicitor expected they would discuss it in court and come to some agreement, however that didn't happen we had abot a 5 min case where I said I pleased guilty the judge then said due to the 2 conflicting reports being so far apart he said that in his mind the only thing to do would be a newton hearing and that he wanted to rearrange for a time where they had space for a 3hr hearing where both witnesses would be available,

I just wish they could contact each other and come to an agreement outside of court and we could then just go back for sentencing as this case will have been on going for over a year before I get closure,

I just can't see how the hearing could take 3hrs and I'm scared ill mess it up or say the wrong thing,

However the saving grace is the solicitor I have does specialise in traffic / motoring however I was lucky he was also the on call solicitor when I was arrested so he knows all about the case and doesn't charge 5000+ like some quoted
 
All you can do is to tell “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....”
It would be worth asking your solicitor to approach the CPS to see if a consensus could be agreed and presented to the court as to what the likely reading was.
It would be in the interests both parties to avoid a 3 hour hearing.
 
Thanks for that and I plan to,

Iv asked my solicitor to do that hes been trying to get this sorted for months as he doesn't want the case going to court as like you say its not in anyones interest and will have massive financial impacts with court costs,

And with the courts already strained due to lockdown the fact im wanting to sort this out you think the cps would welcome that however up to now my solicitor has struggled to even get a reply,

At the newton hearing could my solicitor call witnesses ? Like for example the police officer who came in to my house and saw me drinking ?

Or would it all be based on reports from when I was arrested ?
 
Yes, your solicitor can call witnesses, but again if he put CPS on notice of this, the police officer could make a statement that both sides agree to and that can be read to the court instead of giving evidence in person.
 
You have raised an interesting question with the solicitor about interim bans, and you are right that they can only last for 6 months from when they are imposed.
it states this here:

Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to the prosecution and punishment (including the punishment without conviction) of road traffic offences with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

I have never known an interim ban get to the 6 month stage, but we live in “interesting times” at the moment!

HOWEVER, the debate is whether you should get a 12-16 month ban, or a higher ban and be treated as a high risk offender and have to do a medical.
I can therefore see you having troubles saying “right, the interim ban is up, I am not now banned for a month until the new hearing so I want my licence back.....” How long will that process take? - bearing in mind that ordinary applications are taking a month or more to,process.
As the interim ban counts towards your full ban, when it is decided, do you really want to argue with the system to get your licence for a couple of weeks before losing it again, and even if you did, how you’d you be able to explain your position to an insurance company? Nightmare.....
 
Thanks price

Ironically it was my solicitor who told me originally the temp ban could only last 6 months I never really considered it until now as also never expected it to go on this long,

I was wondering really how it worked and what the process would be i didn't know

A) would i have to re apply or would the system just default and say its not progressed and the ban is now invalid and re instate my license ?

B) could I use this time as extra credit so it counts towards my ban period, or would the computer default and only count it as 6 months ?

Im not in a rush to drive i would rather use it as time served however if it can't be used then I mares well be driving if thats an easy enough process ?


I have to admit I'm finding the whole thing very confusing

Thanks
 
I think you have to consider about what I said were the practicalities.
you can only say “my ban is up, I am therefore entitled to drive again.” if a ban is for less than 56 days.
Over that time and your licence is invalid and you have to apply for a fresh one and how will DVLA deal with that? They would probably seek clarification from the court that imposed the interim ban, who would promptly call you back earlier than you have been notified to validate a full ban. After all, on your own admission you should be facing a ban of 17-22 months (I Said 12-16 before but I forgot your own expert put your reading at about 65)
Whilst it is an interesting position, I cannot see how you can actually gain meaningfully from it.
I would suspect that if you just let things run, they will credit you with the 7 months that you will have served, rather than the 6 months maximum allowed. Even if it does come out at court, your solicitor would just ask the magistrates to notionally knock a month off what they intended to give you because you had been “virtually“ banned since your first court appearance.
 
Think your right and ill just make sure my solicitor is aware that I want him to bring that up in court hopefully they might look at it as a possitive of how seriously I'm taking all this and knock off a few more hours of community payback as a reward,

Can but hope I guess
 
Just an update

I rang the dvla tonight and for everyone's information yes a temp court ban can only last 6 months you are fully entitled to apply for your licence once thats expired, no medical required as there is no definitive answer from the court as to my status as a dangerous driver,

Catch is need to reapply and pay for a replacement licence which will likely come after my case,


So I'm going to just to ride it out without going any further and will advise my solicitor to advise the court at sentencing i have done 7 months ban in theory


However if we get a local lockdown and my case moves again I may cry !

Thanks
 
Just for a bit of an update for anyone who is reading these posts scared to their wits end not knowing what to do next today i received this, I was never expecting this to happen and I can honestly say the relief is over whelming, I'm so glad I followed through and paid the extra for the bacs test so I could get a fairer trial,

And price thank you so much for the advise you give people on this site it really helps and its nice to think that people are willing to give up there time for people who haven't been angels20200907_144837.jpg
 
Well done!
I thought your expert said your reading would have been 60-65, how did you persuade CPS to accept 41 ??

There is one more thing to sort out, and this is where your case continues to be interesting.......
If you get a 12 month ban, and the court offer you 25% off for completing the course, it has to be completed within 7 months..... and that time is almost, if not actually, up with the interim ban.
So you will not get the course unless you get a 14 Or 15 month ban, giving you a reduction of 3.5 / 3.75 months which gives you time to do the course...... And gives you a ban of less than the straight 12 months. You will have to decide if this is worth it, as you have to pay for the course. You could enquire with the course provider you would like to use to see if they have course availability soon near you because it Would be awful if you persuaded the magistrates to give you a longer ban, to end up with a shorter one - only to find out that you cannot do a course!

the list of providers are here:

www.drinkdriving.org

DVSA Approved Drink Driving Course Providers

List of approved DVSA drink driving rehabilitation course providers.
www.drinkdriving.org www.drinkdriving.org
 
Thanks for advising me that I have just emailed my solicitor to ask for advise, I'd rather just take the 5 months remaining ban and not do the course than save one or 2 months and pay £125. Iv coped this long another 2 months will not hurt, i was in my head expecting a minimum 2yr ban anyway,

Im unsure how they got to that figure i don't really have a clue as i thought they would take the 2 figures and meet in the middle never expected them to agree with my solicitors lowest figure but im not complaining, Im just grateful to get closure finally
 
In your shoes I would probably do the same, but at least you are aware that you will not get the reduction to save you getting your hopes up.
Let us know on the forum how it goes on Thursday.
 
I know this is a question thats going to get a who knows answer, I said i was guilty in feb, in feb they said i needed a hearing so it couldn't go ahead, fast forward and covid coming about im now in a position where my court date is now and because of old laws I can't have the course now as the defence have got the result they wanted 6 months ago, my question is why shouldn't I have the same rights as someone dealt with before covid ? My solicitor is going to argue the point but is this something anyone has come across ?
 
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Problem is that the 7 month limit is set so you have 56 days to apply for your licence back 3 months early.
if they allowed you to go to 10 months, say, then by the time you had applied then the 12 months would be up!
Check and see if there is a course available to you, then argue the case with the magistrates but they would, at best, extend it to 8 months. By the time the referral has been made and the course is booked (it takes place over 15 days) then your time would be up!
That is how things are set by law.
Still if you don't ask..... (see, I didn’t say ‘who knows...’)
 
So outcome day is finally been and gone

14 month ban - was hoping for 12 but knew that was going to be hard as the prosecution told the story over and over that it would have been alot different if they could have proven the 129ug

So I suppose I shouldn't feel too hard done to.

£250 fine £85 costs and the victim fee which was about £40

Unfortunately because I can't do a course by 20th of this month I have to do the whole ban I cant have it reduced

They have taken the 6 months off i have already done though so really only have 8 months to go, they wouldn't count the 3 weeks since the 6 months ran out as in there eyes I could have drove if I wanted,

Could have been alot worse though as was expecting a newton hearing and so was the agency procecutor who turned up and hadn't been told by the cps we had agreed to settle on 41 and the police office who turned up to give evidence as he had also not been advised he wasn't needed, luckily my solicitor handled everything and made sure the situation didn't go pear shaped, best £500 iv ever spent that and the £330 for my own bacs test,

All in all a very stressful year that I'm just great full to finally have behind me,

Thanks for everyone's advise it has helped alot and if anyone is in same boat as I was fight it you have nothing to loose I didnt gain any extra costs or loose any credit by doing any of this as I said from the start I was guilty, I just wanted a fair trial based on figures that should have been taken in to account from day one,
 
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