New Drink Driving Legislation Effective 1st June 2013

Convicted Driver Insurance

Sandra Harrison

New member
The one thing I did think was how stupid it is that anyone can get on the road to start with, without a medical and go through their entire driving life potentially without ever having one. Just based on the numbers of drivers on the road, there is a far bigger risk to my mind from the people who have never been medically assessed.
That's not to say that those of use who have drank and drove shouldn't have a medical, of course we should as a duty of care, but to put the focus solely on that group of drivers carries a risk of missing far more.

Absolutely! It's shocking how surprisingly easy it seems to be. Even in Eastern Europre they have to go through extremely difficult procedures just to get on the road which includes plenty of classes on defensive driving, First Aid, a medical, theory exams and then you can start practising on the roads! These countries put us to shame in terms of safety!
 

bristol.red

No Longer a Member
This thread and poll was very important and was going to become interesting next year when the HRO drink drivers convicted after 1st June 2013 were applying for licences back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

over3under4

Member
It seems to be another hurdle for people to jump and be even more reliant on the DVLA to do there job in a reasonable timescale.
 

Moodle

Well-known member
It seems to be another hurdle for people to jump and be even more reliant on the DVLA to do there job in a reasonable timescale.

True, and it doesn't effect me, but I thought it was mad that I was allowed to drive before confirmation that the medical was passed and having my licence back, and to be honest it will hopefully stop those that really shouldn't be back on the roads i.e. those that truly are dependent on alcohol or misuse it whilst driving and who would find it hard to stop...without help or whatever else...that isn't condemning them but more that we all know it impairs our senses so at the end of the day perhaps too many people ended up back on the road when they shouldn't be and more deaths occurred....some may not like what I have written here but that is my view... however I would hope that the DVLA work to a set time scale wherever possible or move the time you can apply for your licence to an earlier date than is currently set to allow for GP reports etc if needed and their medical panel to look at more complicated cases within the ban timeframe...however having read posts on here I think that sometimes that might prove impossible to achieve.

Moodle
 

maximus

Well-known member
moodle does everyone get the chance or coz my dr and pysch wrote to dvla said blood tested me and I haven't drank for 19 months that they let me drive under 88
 

Moodle

Well-known member
moodle does everyone get the chance or coz my dr and pysch wrote to dvla said blood tested me and I haven't drank for 19 months that they let me drive under 88

Sorry, you've lost me there Max? you're allowed to drive under section 88 soon aren't you? Happy New Year by the way :)
 

maximus

Well-known member
happy near year moodle what I was trying to say is does everyone get the chance to drive under section 88 when there ban ends or is it my drs report saying I havnt drank for 10 months that have helped me with this I can drive on the 8th although im still not happy with the gamble but just no im gunna wanna do it lets face it I had my brand new golf for 20 mins and then got pulled over, its alright my mates saying wait but it could be like 2 months for the results of the medical
 

stoopid

Active member
Hi, I'm hoping someone can help me here...

I am due in court next week on an application for early removal of disqualification. I was convicted in 2012 therefore I am assuming that I will retain my right to drive before undergoing the medical if indeed my disqualification is removed next week. I am also aware that if that is the case, I must wait until the DVLA have received my application before I can legally exercise my section 88 rights.

I spoke to the DVLA about this a couple of weeks ago and the first person I talked to knew nothing of this right and insisted that I had to wait to receive the license before driving. When I rejected that opinion they put me through to the medical department of the DVLA and after a while I was told that I would be entitled to drive but only after the DVLA had received my application and that the application was a qualifying application.

My problem is that my solicitor said he isn't aware of such legislation and that I have to wait until I receive my license back. My concern is that if indeed I am granted my license back, I will end up having to wait the months it seems to take to get the medical passed and receive my license.

Any advice on how I can point my solicitor in the direction of this legislation? Do I just ask him to look at section 88 of the Road Traffic Act? If I am told in court that I have to wait until my license returns from the DVLA when I know this isn't the case, how do I argue it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 

price1367

TTC Group
You are right that the relevant legislation is S88 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.
An application for early restoration of a driving licence can be made after serving half of your ban, subject to a minimum time served of 2 years so you do qualify. Your solicitor will have to convince the court that there will be a tangible benefit from you getting your licence back. This applies more to the benefits to others rather than to you, because the intention was for you to be punished when you were banned.
It lakes a solicitor with knowledge of what to say, and equally what NOT to say, in applications like this and I wonder if your solicitor has the necessary expertise if he has not even heard of S88 RTA 1988?
under S88' you can drive once a valid application has been received by DVLA. That does not just mean that it has arrived, it has to be complete, correct and fully paid for so if, for example, you had forgotten to sign it, or sent the wrong payment and you started to drive, then you would be committing an offence of driving without a licence. That is why you should wait until you are certain that DVLA have processed your application and you ask to have it confirmed, in writing, that you can drive under S88. That way you have something to show both the Police if you are stopped and your insurance company that you are permitted to drive.
the other proviso is that you should not have had an indication from your doctor that you should not drive. Don't be tempted to ignore your doctors advice as DVLA may well check with him / her as a part of the medical process and if it emerges that you had been advised not to drive but you ignored it then deep doodoo will follow.......
 

stoopid

Active member
Thanks for the quick response. I am happy with the case that my solicitor has put together, mainly as it's the truth.

Thanks for the clarification on the S88 question. Would the court be aware of my rights under S88? If they were to advise me that I have to wait for my license to be in my possession yet I know that I have the right to drive as long as the DVLA have indicated so in writing, am I entitled to drive?

Thanks again!
 

price1367

TTC Group
S88 entitlement is nothing to do with the court and your solicitor should not mention it during your appeal to get your licence back. That will just muddy the water.
I can assure you that the guidance that I gave in my last post is correct.
You said that you are happy with the application because it is the truth. That is good, but as I indicated before, sometimes there are areas that you should not go into because it turns the magistrates against the application. This is mainly an application saying: 'poor old X, my client, is really suffering from this long ban and I would ask you to put an end to his misery.' That is true..... And will be refused.
On the other hand, an application along the lines of: "my client was in a bad place 2 years ago. This is what he has done to change his life and reassure you that he will not reoffend. if he is granted his licence back now these are the benefits that others will get from this.....' Then quote job opportunities for new staff, or whatever will happen to the good. That should also be true, of course, but will probably produce a positive response from the magistrates.
you can sent me a PM on here if you want, with the outline of your argument that you plan to put to the court and I am happy to advise. At the end of the day though, what you submit to the court must be true!
 

stoopid

Active member
Hi,

Thanks again for the reply. He most definitely won't be mentioning that during my application.

My reasons for the application are definitely worth consideration. Numerous people are being put under pressure as a result of my disqualification and my employment is also under question.

Thanks again for your advice, I really appreciate it.
 

stoopid

Active member
Well S88 is no use to me now anyhow, I had my hearing today and my ban was reduced by approx 6 months meaning I have just over 3 months left to run. I guess at least I can get the medical etc out of the way now.

Thanks for your advice anyhow!
 

Mikei

Member
Hi guys I dont know what to do my disqualification has been spent and I didnt get reminder from dvla for renewal driving licence I am not sure if that apply only for high risk offender? I am on DR10 endorsment blow 70mg 100ml of breath they didnt take my driving licence from me so I am not sure if I can still driving on my old deiving licence or apply fro new ones?
 

price1367

TTC Group
You need to get a D1 form from the post office and apply for your licence.
the old one is invalid so you cannot drive until your new one is issued.
 

Plewsy

Member
Up until today people got there licences back because they had completed there disqualification, finished the sentence which the courts gave them. Now the government has decided that they have to prove they are not dependant on alcohol before they are allowed to drive again and you are not allowed to start proving this to DVLA untill 3 months before the ban ends.

The time DVLA take to make decisions, many applicants who were dependant will be in recovery and no longer be dependant when a decision is made. On the other hand many applicants will of become dependant on alcohol by the fact of getting so pissed of with DVLA and the time they are taking, you only have to read this forum to understand how frustrated and anxious DVLA are making some people. I have said in other threads that my drinking increases when I get angry with DVLA. The way DVLA treat certain applicants can easily throw them of the "wagon" road to recovery and put them back to hell.
Hello, I have just been sentenced, my reading was 90. Whilst I take full responsibility for my actions I have been reading up on my new classification as an HRO. This was my first ever conviction for anything by the way. My first thoughts about the HRO, are that it's a piece of legislation that could well be challenged, and here's why. As I am now in the same category as sex offenders, Murderers and other people who have committed serious crimes I would like to look at the following. I have been working within the CJS for the last 30 years and have worked with sex offenders, murderers and many repeat offenders. Each HRO is assessed on a very regular basis as to their commitment to change and their thinking. Being classified as a HRO is a non assessed model of punitive punishment and possible long term disadvantage. I cannot see how the group of people associated with DD offences that lead to being a HRO can be be classified as such without assessment individually as every case is unique and has differing mitigation. I personally, as said, recorded 90, whereas a DD who is recorded at 87.5 will not be subject of the HRO label. The government data does not establish how these limits were established and has no recognition that 87.5 is considered a medium to low risk. What we have is a piece of legislation that is outside of the criminal justice system, and is governed by an Agency that processes on numbers. The CJS is responsible for the potential risk of HRO, so why is my personal data now containing me in the same classification as serial offenders, data that is shared outside of the CJS. If I was to surrender my licence, does the HRO get removed, I cannot find that information. This label has sever implications in many areas of our lives. Employment requiring a DBS will be affected by the disclosure of an individual having a HRO attached to their history. Housing providers will also have access to the information, and all this has no relevance to these situations in most cases. If the court were to classify us DD offenders as HRO, then courses of treatment and rehabilitation would be offered. The DVLA have no influence of a pathway to support offenders, yet it can implement our status and position in life. My own view is that the DVLA have no right of criminal labelling, I cannot see how this all supports the rehabilitation of a DD. All you can get to read on the DVLA website is about the end of ban terms of regaining your licence. I for one fully intend to challenge this example of government silos working outside of each other with no benefit to rehabilitation. There is a lot to read and research on this subject, but where there is a will there's a way. And.. It wouldn't be the first time that a loop hole or procedural system has not covered itself in glory.
 

Plewsy

Member
Don't please presume that any of these agencies, Magistrates, Police or the DVLA, have good knowledge about anything concerned with the law or sentencing, because I can assure everyone that you could be more knowledgeable than any of them with a bit of research. I personally should not listened to my solicitor, so I have now got to fight for myself, but at 60 and retired, I have plenty of time to catch them out. I also think and hope that Human Rights and disability can play a big part in this process of building a case.
 

price1367

TTC Group
You are confusing two different systems.
There is a high risk offender scheme in relation to serious offenders which is a classification used by the probation service.
There is a high risk offender classification in the drink driving process, used by DVLA to show that a person requires a medical at the end of their ban.

This is under legislation, not the whim of DVLA or “outside the criminal justice system’


The fact that any drink driving conviction, let alone the HRO category, is a criminal conviction makes it disclosable for most of the instances you have quoted.
I certainly do not agree with your premise that someone driving a motor vehicle on a road whilst more than 2.5 times the legal limit is a ‘medium to low risk’ in respect of assessing their risk to other road users, which is what the HRO process for drink driving is designed to address.

Disability plays no part in the drink drive process. You have to be fit enough to drive a vehicle on the roads, with adaptation if necessary. You are also required to be under the legal limit for alcohol. If you are over the limit it is quite proper that any driver in those circumstances should lose their licence for a period of time and if they put themselves into the HRO category them show their suitability to be given their licence back by showing that they are fit to have it back.
Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right.
 

Plewsy

Member
You are confusing two different systems.
There is a high risk offender scheme in relation to serious offenders which is a classification used by the probation service.
There is a high risk offender classification in the drink driving process, used by DVLA to show that a person requires a medical at the end of their ban.

This is under legislation, not the whim of DVLA or “outside the criminal justice system’


The fact that any drink driving conviction, let alone the HRO category, is a criminal conviction makes it disclosable for most of the instances you have quoted.
I certainly do not agree with your premise that someone driving a motor vehicle on a road whilst more than 2.5 times the legal limit is a ‘medium to low risk’ in respect of assessing their risk to other road users, which is what the HRO process for drink driving is designed to address.

Disability plays no part in the drink drive process. You have to be fit enough to drive a vehicle on the roads, with adaptation if necessary. You are also required to be under the legal limit for alcohol. If you are over the limit it is quite proper that any driver in those circumstances should lose their licence for a period of time and if they put themselves into the HRO category them show their suitability to be given their licence back by showing that they are fit to have it back.
Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right.
A HRO will be impacting on lives regardless of it being driving related. When you have an agency entitled to label people then it's going to far. Why are dd offenders considered HR when they are banned? What part does this play throughout a two year ban? You may have some valid points of course, if we have agencies like the DVLA classifying us as HRO C, then they should back that up with pathways of rehabilitation. It's unnecessary and pointless to have the power to classify an individual with the HRO tag and then just see the answer to be a medical at the end of the ban. What does the HRO tag do for anyone who's got it? What is the actual risk whilst serving a ban. Doesn't the risk become live for someone when the opportunity to drive again may be given. And please don't talk to me about privilege... Privilege favours the privileged, fact!
 

Plewsy

Member
A HRO will be impacting on lives regardless of it being driving related. When you have an agency entitled to label people then it's going to far. Why are dd offenders considered HR when they are banned? What part does this play throughout a two year ban? You may have some valid points of course, if we have agencies like the DVLA classifying us as HRO C, then they should back that up with pathways of rehabilitation. It's unnecessary and pointless to have the power to classify an individual with the HRO tag and then just see the answer to be a medical at the end of the ban. What does the HRO tag do for anyone who's got it? What is the actual risk whilst serving a ban. Doesn't the risk become live for someone when the opportunity to drive again may be given. And please don't talk to me about privilege... Privilege favours the privileged, fact!
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20211116-192003.png
    Screenshot_20211116-192003.png
    163.3 KB · Views: 9
Enter code DRINKDRIVING10 during checkout for 10% off
Top