Drug Driving DG10

[Joe7]

Hello guys,

I know this isn’t a drug driving forum but it’s similar to drink driving and I’m just looking for some advice.

I was pulled over October last year and I was breathalysed and blew 0. They then drug wiped me and I tested positive for cocaine and cannabis so I was arrested and I gave a blood sample.

My postal results were:

Cocaine 13 micrograms (limit 10)
Benzoylecgonine 75 micrograms (limit 50)
No cannabis was detected in my blood so therefore I wasn’t charged with cannabis.

Therefore, I was charged with two counts of drug driving. I appeared in court on 19th March.

Mitigating circumstances were:

No previous criminal record
Autism (learning disability)
First ever motoring offence
Letter of apology to the magistrates
Dressed smartly
Shown genuine remorse

Aggravating factors were:

1 passenger was in the vehicle when stopped
I was pulled over due to speeding, the prosecution said the arresting officer said my driving was an unacceptable standard. Approx 45mph in a 30mph speed limit.

The prosecution was pushing for a category 2 sentence which is a 17-28 months disqualification with a community order. I thought this was quite excessive based on my circumstances.

My solicitor fought for me and spoke a very good defence, he also said cocaine and benzoylecgonine is one drug because benzoylecgonine is a breakdown product of cocaine. The three magistrates went into the back room for a 10 minute chat to discuss on the most appropriate sentence for me.

They came back out and said I can see you show genuine remorse and we have read your letter of apology so thank you for that.
As a result, we are going to place you in category 3 but at the top end due to the aggravating factors. We are sentencing you to 16 months disqualification and £250 fines.

My DVLA online record is showing 2 x DG10 endorsements for cocaine and benzoylecgonine. Is this correct even though they are both treated as one drug?

I did call my solicitor and he said this is quite normal due to both drugs being found in your blood so therefore you were charged and convicted for both drugs but the magistrates removed the penalty for benzoylecgonine.

Also, my driving ban end date is 18 July 2025, will I be classed as a HRO or will it just be a simple licence renewal and I can reapply for my full licence 56 days before my ban expires?

56 days before my ban expires is 23 May 2025, could I send a D1 form to DVLA with £65 postal order on 22 May 2025 by next day special delivery and they will receive this the next day which would then be 56 days before my ban expires or can I not send the D1 form to them until the 56th day before which is 23 May 2025?

Any advice on all this will be much appreciated guys, thank you all so much!

 

[Bad_karma]

Whilst inextricably linked, cocaine and benzoylecgonine are not the same thing. It may be frustrating but they have their own individual limits and are treated separately, hence you have two convictions (as confirmed by your solicitor).

There is no such thing as HRO for drug driving (yet). When you re-apply for your licence you will be required to answer if you have ever had “persistent drug misuse or dependency” problems. Provided you genuinely haven’t and you don’t have any medical records indicating this then you can tick no. It is not common for DVLA to make enquiries with your GP or make you undergo a medical exam for someone convicted of drug driving although not completely unprecedented - it ultimately remains at their discretion. Provided they don’t have any information to give them cause for concern then you should be fine, I wouldn’t worry.

Yes, you can make an application for a driving licence 56 days before your disqualification is due to end.

 

[Joe7]

Whilst inextricably linked, cocaine and benzoylecgonine are not the same thing. It may be frustrating but they have their own individual limits and are treated separately, hence you have two convictions (as confirmed by your solicitor).

There is no such thing as HRO for drug driving (yet). When you re-apply for your licence you will be required to answer if you have ever had “persistent drug misuse or dependency” problems. Provided you genuinely haven’t and you don’t have any medical records indicating this then you can tick no. It is not common for DVLA to make enquiries with your GP or make you undergo a medical exam for someone convicted of drug driving although not completely unprecedented - it ultimately remains at their discretion. Provided they don’t have any information to give them cause for concern then you should be fine, I wouldn’t worry.

Yes, you can make an application for a driving licence 56 days before your disqualification is due to end.

Hi Bad_karma,

Thanks for your reply, you are very helpful and knowledgeable.

Would both convictions have a bigger impact on my insurance if they are both for the same offence on the same date, would the insurance company take both convictions into account that it’s technically for the same drug or does that not matter? So I would have to declare both convictions to my insurance?

56 days before my ban expires is 23/05/2025 (ban expires 18/07/2025) so could I send the D1 form on 22/05/2025 by next day delivery so it arrives on 23/05/2025 or would I not be able to send it until 23/05/2025?

Would I receive my licence back before my ban expires? Would it update on the DVLA online licence checker to say you have a full licence valid from 19/07/2025 or would it still show as you are disqualified until 18/07/2025 then update after this end date to show full licence again?

Thanks for your help!!

 

[Xeronema]

56 days before my ban expires is 23/05/2025 (ban expires 18/07/2025) so could I send the D1 form on 22/05/2025 by next day delivery so it arrives on 23/05/2025 or would I not be able to send it until 23/05/2025?

Hey Joe7, welcome to the forum.

You can send the D1 on 22/05/2025 (Special Delivery). It could take the DVLA a week to scan the D1 onto the system, so a few days before wouldn't make much difference. I'd probably give the DVLA a ring in April 2025 and ask when you can apply for your licence back. The reason I say this is because even though the DVLA state that you should not apply until 56 days prior to your disqualification end, there have been others on this forum that have applied for their licence back several months prior to the end of their disqualification, after being advised by the DVLA to do so.

Would I receive my licence back before my ban expires? Would it update on the DVLA online licence checker to say you have a full licence valid from 19/07/2025 or would it still show as you are disqualified until 18/07/2025 then update after this end date to show full licence again?

Once your application is granted, it will show on the online checker as your driving licence being valid from 19/07/2025. You'll be able to see your disqualification(s) under the "Penalties and Disqualifications" tab.

 

[Joe7]

Hey Joe7, welcome to the forum.

You can send the D1 on 22/05/2025 (Special Delivery). It could take the DVLA a week to scan the D1 onto the system, so a few days before wouldn't make much difference. I'd probably give the DVLA a ring in April 2025 and ask when you can apply for your licence back. The reason I say this is because even though the DVLA state that you should not apply until 56 days prior to your disqualification end, there have been others on this forum that have applied for their licence back several months prior to the end of their disqualification, after being advised by the DVLA to do so.


Once your application is granted, it will show on the online checker as your driving licence being valid from 19/07/2025. You'll be able to see your disqualification(s) under the "Penalties and Disqualifications" tab.

Hello Xeronema, thanks for your detailed response.

I will grab a D1 form from the post office on 22/05/2025 by next day delivery they will receive it on 23/05/2025 (56 days before ban expires) and I will date it as 23/05/2025 and I’ll send it with a £65 postal order, I’ve heard the D27 form takes weeks to come or sometimes doesn’t arrive. I’d rather start the process on day 1.

I will phone the DVLA April 2025 as mentioned by yourself, thank you.

Will I be classed as a HRO or will it just be a simple licence renewal 56 days before my ban expires? Will the DVLA send me back my licence before my ban expires? Also will I receive back a full licence? I had a full licence when banned and wasn’t ordered to do a re-test or anything by the magistrates.

In regards to insurance, will I have to declare both DG10 convictions even though it’s technically for the same drug on the same date for the same ban length? (Cocaine/BZE)

Thanks for your help, it’s much appreciated.

 

[Xeronema]

Will I be classed as a HRO or will it just be a simple licence renewal 56 days before my ban expires? Will the DVLA send me back my licence before my ban expires? Also will I receive back a full licence? I had a full licence when banned and wasn’t ordered to do a re-test or anything by the magistrates.

As Bad_karma has already said, there's no HRO scheme (yet) for drug driving, so you won't be classed as a High Risk Offender. I'm not actually sure if the DVLA will send you your licence before your ban expires. Even if they do, it won't be valid until 19/07/2025 anyway, so you won't be able to drive regardless.

I can't answer the question about whether you'll get a full licence back or not, because I don't know. I would have thought that if you're not made to go for a medical examination, you will get a full licence back. Bad_karma also covered that in their response.

In regards to insurance, will I have to declare both DG10 convictions even though it’s technically for the same drug on the same date for the same ban length? (Cocaine/BZE)

Unfortunately you will have to declare both convictions. If they were grouped together, you'd only have the one conviction. Your insurance will be void if you only declare one, and you'll be breaking the law. I know it doesn't seem very fair.

Additional: I've looked into the two drugs you have convictions for and the sentencing council, from what I can tell, state the following: "For these purposes, cocaine and benzoylecgonine (BZE) shall be treated as one drug as they both occur in the body as a result of cocaine use rather than poly-drug use.".

I've also read a thread on Reddit (I suspect you've also read the same thread), suggesting that the court should have only applied one conviction, not two. I'm not confident enough to question whether this is the case or not. Maybe you could ask Martin Hammond (solicitor for the FREE LEGAL ADVICE section of this forum) what his thoughts are about this? Here's the link: https://www.forum.drinkdriving.org/forums/free-legal-advice-drug-driving-england-wales.165/

 

[Bad_karma]

Xero is, as usual, correct and has done some good research. I was always under the impression benzoylecgonine was fairly delayed following cocaine use (although this is apparently not true) and the presence of both was to be interpreted as separate occasions when you have taken the drug. The legislation states they are differentiated but this sentencing council document suggests otherwise which is curious as well as the fact it doesn’t seem overly well highlighted

Talk to Martin Hammond as well as send https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Drug-driving-guidance-for-web.pdf to your solicitor and ask him to explain the discrepancy to you. Whilst it’s not out of the question it’s a mistake, it does seem strange that the DVLA, CPS, the court as well as your own solicitor are all saying there’s no problem or issue with it - do come back and let us know when you get more clarity on the topic

 

[Joe7]

As Bad_karma has already said, there's no HRO scheme (yet) for drug driving, so you won't be classed as a High Risk Offender. I'm not actually sure if the DVLA will send you your licence before your ban expires. Even if they do, it won't be valid until 19/07/2025 anyway, so you won't be able to drive regardless.

I can't answer the question about whether you'll get a full licence back or not, because I don't know. I would have thought that if you're not made to go for a medical examination, you will get a full licence back. Bad_karma also covered that in their response.


Unfortunately you will have to declare both convictions. If they were grouped together, you'd only have the one conviction. Your insurance will be void if you only declare one, and you'll be breaking the law. I know it doesn't seem very fair.

Hello Xeronama,

Thanks for your detailed response, yet again.

Xero is, as usual, correct and has done some good research. I was always under the impression benzoylecgonine was fairly delayed following cocaine use (although this is apparently not true) and the presence of both was to be interpreted as separate occasions when you have taken the drug. The legislation states they are differentiated but this sentencing council document suggests otherwise which is curious as well as the fact it doesn’t seem overly well highlighted

Talk to Martin Hammond as well as send https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Drug-driving-guidance-for-web.pdf to your solicitor and ask him to explain the discrepancy to you. Whilst it’s not out of the question it’s a mistake, it does seem strange that the DVLA, CPS, the court as well as your own solicitor are all saying there’s no problem or issue with it - do come back and let us know when you get more clarity on the topic

Hello Bad_karma,

Well I did some further digging today, I called several motoring solicitors who kindly offered a 5 minute chat over the telephone free of charge.

They all advised because cocaine and benzoylecgonine were both found in my blood, I would be charged with whatever drugs were in my system, however due to cocaine and benzoylecgonine being classed as one drug, the magistrates would only impose one penalty hence the low disqualification that I received (16 months).

They all advised the scenario would be very different if for example, cocaine, benzoylecgonine and cannabis was found in my blood. The court would convict me for three counts of drug driving but would only punish me on two counts (cocaine and cannabis due to benzoylecgonine technically not counting towards the ban due to cocaine already being in the blood).

The only way the court would convict and disqualify you based on benzoylecgonine would be if there was no cocaine found in your blood, but when cocaine and benzoylecgonine are both found in your blood which is usually the case most of the time then the court would only ban you for the cocaine conviction.

I also asked the question, would I be classed as a HRO due to 2 convictions and they all said no because both convictions were on the same date for the same offence, the 2 convictions in a 10 year period would only apply to 2 separate drug driving offences on separate dates.

Based on this information, in my case I would not be classed as a HRO and I’d simply just send a D1 form to the DVLA 56 days before my ban expires, should be pretty straightforward. I’ve heard that people who are HRO have to jump through hoops to get their licences back after their medicals.

It doesn’t seem very fair because the DVLA are notified of 2 x DG10 endorsements for technically the same type of drug. This may now affect my insurance premiums when my ban expires?

Would there be any insurance companies who would take into account that both DG10 endorsements were for the same offence on the same date which they’ll be able to confirm if they have a look at my driving licence online record so they could maybe classify it as just one DG10 endorsement?

Thanks all for your help and advice.

 

[Bad_karma]

Hello Xeronama,

Thanks for your detailed response, yet again.


Hello Bad_karma,

Well I did some further digging today, I called several motoring solicitors who kindly offered a 5 minute chat over the telephone free of charge.

They all advised because cocaine and benzoylecgonine were both found in my blood, I would be charged with whatever drugs were in my system, however due to cocaine and benzoylecgonine being classed as one drug, the magistrates would only impose one penalty hence the low disqualification that I received (16 months).

They all advised the scenario would be very different if for example, cocaine, benzoylecgonine and cannabis was found in my blood. The court would convict me for three counts of drug driving but would only punish me on two counts (cocaine and cannabis due to benzoylecgonine technically not counting towards the ban due to cocaine already being in the blood).

The only way the court would convict and disqualify you based on benzoylecgonine would be if there was no cocaine found in your blood, but when cocaine and benzoylecgonine are both found in your blood which is usually the case most of the time then the court would only ban you for the cocaine conviction.

I also asked the question, would I be classed as a HRO due to 2 convictions and they all said no because both convictions were on the same date for the same offence, the 2 convictions in a 10 year period would only apply to 2 separate drug driving offences on separate dates.

Based on this information, in my case I would not be classed as a HRO and I’d simply just send a D1 form to the DVLA 56 days before my ban expires, should be pretty straightforward. I’ve heard that people who are HRO have to jump through hoops to get their licences back after their medicals.

It doesn’t seem very fair because the DVLA are notified of 2 x DG10 endorsements for technically the same type of drug. This may now affect my insurance premiums when my ban expires?

Would there be any insurance companies who would take into account that both DG10 endorsements were for the same offence on the same date which they’ll be able to confirm if they have a look at my driving licence online record so they could maybe classify it as just one DG10 endorsement?

Thanks all for your help and advice.

This was always what my understanding had been initially - they are separate drugs with their own separate limits and you will be charged for each.

That sentencing council document is slightly disingenuous for us reading it although I suppose we don’t know how old it is and do need to recognise it’s a just sentence in a footnote. The CPS obviously have their own prosecuting policies which they have agreed with the sentencing council, although it’s incredibly unhelpful and unclear that this isn’t set out or explained anywhere for us to access and analyse.

There is no such thing as HRO for drug drivers so you physically cannot be HRO irrespective of how many DG10 convictions you may have (although they are looking to introduce such a scheme in the future).

However, just because you aren’t HRO this doesn’t mean they aren’t going to make medical enquiries with your doctor or send you for a medical exam when you want your licence back. This is entirely at their discretion - although in your case I would say it is unlikely. They will use the conviction information they hold on you as well as what you tell them about any drug use on your D1 form and any other information they hold on you to decide whether they will make you jump through hoops.

It is incredibly unfair, I agree with you entirely. This will have an impact on your insurance premiums.

Would there be any insurance companies who would take into account that both DG10 endorsements were for the same offence on the same date which they’ll be able to confirm if they have a look at my driving licence online record so they could maybe classify it as just one DG10 endorsement?

It’s hard to say - every insurer will have their own risk analysis policy and scoring metric. You may find an insurer will take into account the fact both convictions were on the same date and reduce the premium by a certain % - although you will have no way of knowing if they do or if such a policy exists. You will just get the quote price given to you either way. Some insurers may also ask what your ban length was so the fact you can say 0 months for your BZE DG10 may also reduce the premium slightly. But any decrease (if there would even be a decrease in the first place) is going to be very very very small. The vast majority of insurers will treat each conviction separately and even the ones that don’t will still grade you a greater risk due to the fact you have 2 convictions irrespective of their linkage to one another. I crashed and was convicted of 5 offences - all linked to the same event obviously - and insurers treated each one individually.

Whilst you have only been “punished” for cocaine DG10, thinking about it in this way will be unhelpful. You have 2 criminal convictions for 2 offences and will have to declare this going forward. The lack of a ban or “punishment” for BZE DG10 from here on out is basically irrelevant.