Dg10 endorsment
- Thread starter neebob200
- Start date
BigTom
Established Member
The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act states that by law, you are required to disclose your criminal record for 5 years after conviction if you are issued an endorsement, but only if you are asked. If you go for car insurance for example (or an employer asks you if you have a record), you have to declare it for 5 years despite some actual endorsements disappearing from your licence after 4 years. A DG10 stays on your licence for 11 years though, so anyone having access to your licence details will see the offence for the full 11 years.
price1367
TTC Group
The answer is “yes” because drug driving that stays as an endorsement on your licence for 11 years, although strictly speaking it is only 10, the last year is for court purposes if there is a late prosecution within the 10 years with a conviction after the valid time.
If you are asked if you have any convictions, you do not have to declare it beyond 5 years because it is a spent conviction.
If it is only a question for driving purposes and company insurance then there may be a policy where they can only insure a person with no endorsements on their licence.
For an ordinary job you might be asked if you have any unspent convictions. The answer is no, if it is past 5 years, unless it is an enhanced DBS check in which case 11 years have to have elapsed.
I know that sounds confusing... and it is!
If you are asked if you have any convictions, you do not have to declare it beyond 5 years because it is a spent conviction.
If it is only a question for driving purposes and company insurance then there may be a policy where they can only insure a person with no endorsements on their licence.
For an ordinary job you might be asked if you have any unspent convictions. The answer is no, if it is past 5 years, unless it is an enhanced DBS check in which case 11 years have to have elapsed.
I know that sounds confusing... and it is!
price1367
TTC Group
The answer would be yes, certainly, because it is still unspent and declarable for insurance purposes. That is presumably the reason for asking about endorsements.
If they are asking “Have you got any points on your licence?” As a general question, Then you could say no, because the points have been removed.
I know these answers seem contradictory, but you need to know why the question is being asked.
If the question is because of insurance, then the conviction is not spent after 4 years, it is relevant for insurance for 5 years.
for drink or drug driving, it remains a “endorsement on your licence for 11 years:
If you don’t believe me (andI don’t blame you because it sounds so confusing) you can read confirmation here:
Penalty points (endorsements)
You could get penalty points (endorsements) on your driving record if you're convicted of a motoring offence
neebob200
Established Member
Hi pricey I fully understand what you are saying and I don't mean to be a pain in the rear,and before I go and spend x amount of money on a hgv course for the future,if my conviction drops of my licence in march 2023 but remains on my driving record until March 2034.am asked the question you you have any did,dr or dg endorsment on your licence.what would my reply be...my way of thinking is the dg offense has dropped off but remains on my record.
price1367
TTC Group
It will drop from your licence 11 years from the date of your conviction, so that must be earlier than 2034?
I ran into the issue of HGV and drink driving convictions on a drink drive course. The guy said that he had applied to an agency but they had refused on the grounds that he had a dr10 from 7 years ago.
that is a spent conviction so legally does not have to be declared. If they had been given a DVLA code that can be obtained by someone to show their convictions (or lack of them) then it would have been clear.
BUT, because he had applied for employment he had given them his national insurance number and driving licence details. So they put those details in and DVLA revealed all his endorsements, because as far as they were concerned it was the person himself asking.
They refused to offer him work because their contract required them to only offer up drivers who had a “clean licence”
I pointed out that if he could prove that he had bees discriminated against because of a spent conviction he could make a complaint, but it could be hard to prove.
After lunch Another course member said that his girlfriend worked for a driving employment agency. He had called her over lunch and asked her how she did the checks with DVLA, did they ask for a reference code from the applicant? She said law ask for their national insurance number and driving licence and do a check using these with DVLA” she confirmed that is what she was Trained to do.
Those actions are illegal, but clearly widespread.
You need to take this into account before spending a lot of money on HGV training.....
I ran into the issue of HGV and drink driving convictions on a drink drive course. The guy said that he had applied to an agency but they had refused on the grounds that he had a dr10 from 7 years ago.
that is a spent conviction so legally does not have to be declared. If they had been given a DVLA code that can be obtained by someone to show their convictions (or lack of them) then it would have been clear.
BUT, because he had applied for employment he had given them his national insurance number and driving licence details. So they put those details in and DVLA revealed all his endorsements, because as far as they were concerned it was the person himself asking.
They refused to offer him work because their contract required them to only offer up drivers who had a “clean licence”
I pointed out that if he could prove that he had bees discriminated against because of a spent conviction he could make a complaint, but it could be hard to prove.
After lunch Another course member said that his girlfriend worked for a driving employment agency. He had called her over lunch and asked her how she did the checks with DVLA, did they ask for a reference code from the applicant? She said law ask for their national insurance number and driving licence and do a check using these with DVLA” she confirmed that is what she was Trained to do.
Those actions are illegal, but clearly widespread.
You need to take this into account before spending a lot of money on HGV training.....
neebob200
Established Member
Hi pricey I have no concerns about anybody checking my licence I think it's a good idea,and I've nothing to hide I just Carnot work out the followin what is says on my drivers licence check on gov.com. The information says removal 11/03/2023 to my dg10 two year to go. Could this be its removed from my licence and I don't have a dg10 on my licence but I have a dg10 on my record
price1367
TTC Group
Yes, that is right. It is removed from your licence but remains on your record that in some circumstances can be seen.
neebob200
Established Member
Ok,do I have a dg10 on my licence,when it's removed.if the agency or hgv company ask me if I have any indorsement the answer is no,but when filling in the insurance form it will have to be declared for another year
price1367
TTC Group
That is right, you have to add that if you will be driving a company HGV, it is declarable for another year as points or endorsements have to be declared for 5 years for that purpose.
as I pointed out before though, they may well do their own licence check which will show up the DG 10 so it might be better to explain it to them as being up front about it.
as I pointed out before though, they may well do their own licence check which will show up the DG 10 so it might be better to explain it to them as being up front about it.
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BigTom
Established Member
When you go for a driving job, they will generally ask you for a code to be able to see your licence (similar to how they would have looked at the paper version of your licence from years ago when endorsements were written on there). You generate the code by going onto the DVLA check my licence page (https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence) and clicking on the 'get your check code' tab.
If you look at the https://www.gov.uk/penalty-points-endorsements/endorsement-codes-and-penalty-points page, you will see how long specific endorsements remain on your licence as below;
Codes DR40 to DR70 must stay on a driving record for 4 years from the date of the offence or 4 years from date of conviction where a disqualification is imposed.
These codes must stay on a driving record for 4 years from the date of the offence or 4 years from date of conviction where a disqualification is imposed.
As you can see, DG10 stays on your licence for 11 years and therefore anyone who has your check code can see the details until 11 years from the date of conviction. As mentioned previously, due to the ROA, you are legally required to admit to a criminal record and/or endorsement for 5 years for both employment and insurance purposes. After 5 years, the conviction becomes spent and therefore you do not have to declare it (apart from specific jobs/roles that may be exempt from ROA).
HOWEVER, the endorsement is still there for the 11 years and may well possibly affect job prospects if the licence details are viewed. This is very much a grey area of law as an employer cannot discriminate against you for a 'spent' conviction as they have no legal right to know about it. Having seen it on a licence they are supposed to ignore it, but it's difficult to unsee something you have seen!!
Edit: - I've just looked on the Unlock charity website (https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/dvla-records-of-driving-offences-and-how-theyre-shared/) and they mention that the check code will not show any convictions that are spent under the ROA, however the convictions still stay on the licence and if you decide to do a licence print instead of supplying the code then the convictions will still appear. For this reason, they recommend that people supply the check code to employers rather than supplying them a print out that you can generate. I can't corroborate any of this as I haven't generated a code personally.
If you look at the https://www.gov.uk/penalty-points-endorsements/endorsement-codes-and-penalty-points page, you will see how long specific endorsements remain on your licence as below;
Drink
Codes DR10 to DR61 must stay on a driving record for 11 years from the date of the conviction.| Code | Offence | Penalty points |
|---|---|---|
| DR10 | Driving or attempting to drive with alcohol level above limit | 3 to 11 |
| DR20 | Driving or attempting to drive while unfit through drink | 3 to 11 |
| DR30 | Driving or attempting to drive then failing to supply a specimen for analysis | 3 to 11 |
| DR31 | Driving or attempting to drive then refusing to give permission for analysis of a blood sample that was taken without consent due to incapacity | 3 to 11 |
| DR61 | Refusing to give permission for analysis of a blood sample that was taken without consent due to incapacity in circumstances other than driving or attempting to drive | 10 |
Codes DR40 to DR70 must stay on a driving record for 4 years from the date of the offence or 4 years from date of conviction where a disqualification is imposed.
| Code | Offence | Penalty points |
|---|---|---|
| DR40 | In charge of a vehicle while alcohol level above limit | 10 |
| DR50 | In charge of a vehicle while unfit through drink | 10 |
| DR60 | Failure to provide a specimen for analysis in circumstances other than driving or attempting to drive | 10 |
| DR70 | Failing to co-operate with a preliminary test | 4 |
Drugs
These codes must stay on a driving record for 11 years from the date of the conviction.| Code | Offence | Penalty points |
|---|---|---|
| DG10 | Driving or attempting to drive with drug level above the specified limit | 3 to 11 |
| DG60 | Causing death by careless driving with drug level above the limit | 3 to 11 |
| DR80 | Driving or attempting to drive when unfit through drugs | 3 to 11 |
These codes must stay on a driving record for 4 years from the date of the offence or 4 years from date of conviction where a disqualification is imposed.
| Code | Offence | Penalty points |
|---|---|---|
| DG40 | In charge of a vehicle while drug level above specified limit | 10 |
| DR70 | Failing to co-operate with a preliminary test | 4 |
| DR90 | In charge of a vehicle when unfit through drugs | 10 |
As you can see, DG10 stays on your licence for 11 years and therefore anyone who has your check code can see the details until 11 years from the date of conviction. As mentioned previously, due to the ROA, you are legally required to admit to a criminal record and/or endorsement for 5 years for both employment and insurance purposes. After 5 years, the conviction becomes spent and therefore you do not have to declare it (apart from specific jobs/roles that may be exempt from ROA).
HOWEVER, the endorsement is still there for the 11 years and may well possibly affect job prospects if the licence details are viewed. This is very much a grey area of law as an employer cannot discriminate against you for a 'spent' conviction as they have no legal right to know about it. Having seen it on a licence they are supposed to ignore it, but it's difficult to unsee something you have seen!!
Edit: - I've just looked on the Unlock charity website (https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/dvla-records-of-driving-offences-and-how-theyre-shared/) and they mention that the check code will not show any convictions that are spent under the ROA, however the convictions still stay on the licence and if you decide to do a licence print instead of supplying the code then the convictions will still appear. For this reason, they recommend that people supply the check code to employers rather than supplying them a print out that you can generate. I can't corroborate any of this as I haven't generated a code personally.
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price1367
TTC Group
Bigtom
That sets the position out nicely.
the added problem that I pointed out is that even though , as Unlock point out, it is best to get a check code so the disqualifications do not show up after 5 years, the agency or employer will have your driving licence number and national insurance number and can (and do) carry out their own check that shows the full record on your licence.
Proving it may be difficult, but if someone did feel they had been discriminated against that could Ask DVLA to give them a print out of who accessed their driving licence record, when and under what basis.
That sets the position out nicely.
the added problem that I pointed out is that even though , as Unlock point out, it is best to get a check code so the disqualifications do not show up after 5 years, the agency or employer will have your driving licence number and national insurance number and can (and do) carry out their own check that shows the full record on your licence.
Proving it may be difficult, but if someone did feel they had been discriminated against that could Ask DVLA to give them a print out of who accessed their driving licence record, when and under what basis.
neebob200
Established Member
thanks for your help bigtom and pricey,am still going to proceed with my plan of leaning to drive class 2 hgv as its only about 1400 pounds,if ive a hgv licence i can at least apply for jobs and know where i stand before leaning to drive a class 1.also can you tell me why a dg10 is such a grey area with insurance companies.my car insurance never increased after my conviction and other companies failed to quote me.
KelvinB
New Member
Long time lurker, first time poster. Thank you so much @BigTom
and @price1367 .I have a DR50 from 2016 and thought that I only had to declare it for 4 years as that was the time it was valid for. I have just lost a new job because a DBS showed my criminal record, despite me arguing that I didn't have one (I said this in good faith). It appears that as a driving endorsement had been issued, the law states I have to declare it for 5 years, and although my driving licence does not now show the endorsement as being valid - it shows on my licence check as expired - it is still valid for employment and insurance purposes.
I was tearing my hair out, but this now explains things fully for me. Thanks again, you live and learn!
Hobgoblin
Established Member
I think my company is breaking the law in asking for details of unspent or spent convictions (we have to click a checkbox online once a year).
According to Unlock (https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/to-disclose-or-not-to-disclose/):
Employers are only allowed to ask about certain cautions or convictions. What the employer is allowed to ask, and so what you need to disclose if they do ask, depends on the role that you’re applying for:
However, I'm not going to bring it up with them!
According to Unlock (https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/to-disclose-or-not-to-disclose/):
Exceptions to the golden rule – When you might not disclose even if you are asked
This might apply in three particular situations:Employers are only allowed to ask about certain cautions or convictions. What the employer is allowed to ask, and so what you need to disclose if they do ask, depends on the role that you’re applying for:
- If the job is covered by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, you only have to disclose unspent convictions – even if the employer asks you to disclose spent convictions too.
- If the job is not covered by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and an employer is doing a standard or enhanced check, you only have to disclose cautions and convictions that are not yet filtered – even if they employer asks you to disclose “all” cautions and convictions.
However, I'm not going to bring it up with them!
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