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CDT levels, Medical facts and what the DVLA seem to want now...

topchippyles

Well-known member
Interesting none of the main posters like price/grice ect have not commented on the 0.9 reading that most state on threads.Must be a benchmark but with your traffic light CDT levels its interesting thanks.
 

price1367

TTC Group
Interesting none of the main posters like price/grice ect have not commented on the 0.9 reading that most state on threads.Must be a benchmark but with your traffic light CDT levels its interesting thanks.
That is because the ‘below 1% CDT relates to those who have ‘alcohol dependent’ on their medical notes, whereas the comments earlier are in relation to general applications with no indication of alcohol dependence. There are a number of reports on here which confirm that people have had to show results below 1% to have a licence renewal when deemed to be ‘alcohol dependent’.
 

Grantyone

Well-known member
That is because the ‘below 1% CDT relates to those who have ‘alcohol dependent’ on their medical notes, whereas the comments earlier are in relation to general applications with no indication of alcohol dependence. There are a number of reports on here which confirm that people have had to show results below 1% to have a licence renewal when deemed to be ‘alcohol dependent’.
So based on that, I presume regardless of CDT levels, it is standard for DVLA will write to your GP if a HRO? My CDT was 0.8 start of Aug. Haven’t had DVLA reading yet but they have written to my GP. I presume when they find out there is no alcohol reference on my medical file, DVLA would be happy with 1.3 and under? Clearly expecting it to be 0.8 and under to be fair.
 

C J 1980

Well-known member
A very good thread.

If I can just make my point. I was under the illusion CDTs for a HRO have to be below 1.0% to pass. The confusing aspect is the two categories - alcohol misuse & alcohol dependancy.

I assume the DVLA expect a lower CDT level if you are alcohol dependant, whereas they may allow a slightly higher CDT result if you are labelled alcohol misuse. To make it easier for myself - I aim for anything under 1.0% as a green light pass, as I am part of the 'dependant' category.

DVLA usually write to GPs - there may be exceptions, but if you are a HRO I would guarantee they will be delving into your medical history. If the DVLA don't contact the GP, I would be very surprised.

The subject of LFTs is an interesting one. My last LFT was slightly higher than normal which has caused me some anxiety with my HRO medical on the horizon. I haven't consumed alcohol in 14 months, I don't smoke, I have plenty of light exercise (thanks to having to walk everywhere!!!) and I eat relatively sensibly. My bad habits are drinking too much caffeine and maybe too much sugar courtesy of biscuits and chocolate bars!

LFTs can be high for a number of non alcoholic reasons. Professional athletes or body builders can have high LFT readings, also obese people who don't drink and elderly people with failing health can have high LFT readings.

I remember the 2004 American documentary 'Super Size Me' in which a month long diet of McDonald's pushed Morgan Spurlock's LFT through the roof. Again no alcohol was used in his experiment.

My point is that LFTs are okay to evidence your efforts to stay away from the booze, but at the end of the day, they are not always an accurate indication of sobriety. Hence why the DVLA use the CDT system and not LFT.

The relationship with your GP is a key factor in this. Even if alcohol has never cropped up in your medical history - while serving your ban off the road, as a HRO you need to get the sobriety documented and get your efforts documented ready for when the DVLA contact him/her when your ban is coming to an end.

CJ
 
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Grantyone

Well-known member
A very good thread.

If I can just make my point. I was under the illusion CDTs for a HRO have to be below 1.0% to pass. The confusing aspect is the two categories - alcohol misuse & alcohol dependancy.

I assume the DVLA expect a lower CDT level if you are alcohol dependant, whereas they may allow a slightly higher CDT result if you are labelled alcohol misuse. I wouldn't like to state hand on heart this is the procedure.

To make it easier - I aim for anything under 1.0% as a green light pass.

DVLA usually write to GPs - there may be exceptions, but if you are a HRO I would guarantee they will be delving into your medical history. If the DVLA don't contact the GP, I would be very surprised.

The subject of LFTs is a interesting one. My last LFT was slightly higher than normal which has caused me some anxiety with my HRO medical on the horizon. I haven't consumed alcohol in 14 months, I don't smoke, I have plenty of light exercise (thanks to having to walk everywhere!!!) and I eat relatively sensibly. My bad habits are drinking too much caffeine and maybe too much sugar courtesy of biscuits and chocolate bars!

LFTs can be high for a number of non alcoholic reasons. Professional athletes or body builders can have high LFT readings, also obese people who don't drink and elderly people with failing health can have high LFT readings.

I remember the 2004 American documentary 'Super Size Me' in which a month long diet of McDonald's pushed Morgan Spurlock's LFT through the roof. Again no alcohol was used in his experiment.

My point is that LFTs are okay to evidence your efforts to stay away from the booze, but at the end of the day, they are not always an accurate indication of sobriety. Hence why the DVLA use the CDT system and not LFT.

The relationship with your GP is a key factor in this. Even if alcohol has never cropped up in your medical history - while serving your ban off the road, as a HRO you need to get the sobriety documented and get your efforts documented ready for when the DVLA contact him/her when your ban is coming to an end.

CJ
I understand what you mean re working with GP even if there is no alcohol misuse recorded; but why is that not advised? I am a HRO and as I said, DVLA have written to my GP. Apart from 2 weeks ago, I haven’t been in any contact with my GP throughout my ban. However, 2 weeks ago my GP confirmed there are no red flags on my file. Surely, once the GP replies to DVLA, that confirmation along with a low CDT will be enough for licence reissue?

So, you suggest, the DVLA could still refuse a licence even if you have passed a medical and the GP confirms no red flags?
 

Grantyone

Well-known member
I think it is important to remember that we have just come out a national lockdown. DVLA will be aware that regular testing with your GP wouldn’t have been possible.

Anyway, if proof of abstaining from alcohol is what DVLA requests, surely that’ll be as a result of failing the medical or on the back of a GP report which suggests alcohol dependency.

A medical pass combined with a positive GP questionnaire will surely be enough for licence renewal.
 

C J 1980

Well-known member
I understand what you mean re working with GP even if there is no alcohol misuse recorded; but why is that not advised? I am a HRO and as I said, DVLA have written to my GP. Apart from 2 weeks ago, I haven’t been in any contact with my GP throughout my ban. However, 2 weeks ago my GP confirmed there are no red flags on my file. Surely, once the GP replies to DVLA, that confirmation along with a low CDT will be enough for licence reissue?

So, you suggest, the DVLA could still refuse a licence even if you have passed a medical and the GP confirms no red flags?
I cannot really answer the last question as the DVLA are a very untamed beast when it comes to this proceedure. All I will say is that every single banned driver is a individual case and each case is judged on its own merits.

Just because two drink drivers blow the same reading, serve the same ban length and have similar medical histories doesn't mean both will be treated exactly the same.

Something the DVLA really needs to push for is enforcing and educating 'newly' banned drivers about the HRO medical proceedures at the start of their conviction. All my knowledge, has been gained with the help of this site and my own time & research. Many banned drivers who don't use this forum sadly don't get clued up about what to expect and sadly many are faced with huge disappointment when they make no preparation for getting their licence back and are then faced with a huge fat NO from the DVLA when they reapply at the end of the ban.

CJ
 

topchippyles

Well-known member
A very good thread.

If I can just make my point. I was under the illusion CDTs for a HRO have to be below 1.0% to pass. The confusing aspect is the two categories - alcohol misuse & alcohol dependancy.

I assume the DVLA expect a lower CDT level if you are alcohol dependant, whereas they may allow a slightly higher CDT result if you are labelled alcohol misuse. To make it easier for myself - I aim for anything under 1.0% as a green light pass, as I am part of the 'dependant' category.

DVLA usually write to GPs - there may be exceptions, but if you are a HRO I would guarantee they will be delving into your medical history. If the DVLA don't contact the GP, I would be very surprised.

The subject of LFTs is an interesting one. My last LFT was slightly higher than normal which has caused me some anxiety with my HRO medical on the horizon. I haven't consumed alcohol in 14 months, I don't smoke, I have plenty of light exercise (thanks to having to walk everywhere!!!) and I eat relatively sensibly. My bad habits are drinking too much caffeine and maybe too much sugar courtesy of biscuits and chocolate bars!

LFTs can be high for a number of non alcoholic reasons. Professional athletes or body builders can have high LFT readings, also obese people who don't drink and elderly people with failing health can have high LFT readings.

I remember the 2004 American documentary 'Super Size Me' in which a month long diet of McDonald's pushed Morgan Spurlock's LFT through the roof. Again no alcohol was used in his experiment.

My point is that LFTs are okay to evidence your efforts to stay away from the booze, but at the end of the day, they are not always an accurate indication of sobriety. Hence why the DVLA use the CDT system and not LFT.

The relationship with your GP is a key factor in this. Even if alcohol has never cropped up in your medical history - while serving your ban off the road, as a HRO you need to get the sobriety documented and get your efforts documented ready for when the DVLA contact him/her when your ban is coming to an end.

CJ
I waited 6 years before i applied for my licence to to still being a builder and i liked a few pints after work most days,Anyway applied for my licence last year baring in mind i had not seen my gp in over 4 years but due to my reading was classed as hro. CDT readings came back as 1.7 so they wrote in my Gp which they replied and i was classed as misuse. Made an appointment so second blood test next week to prove LFT which has been documented since march and passed the first and will pass this one as been abstaining.

If i leave applying until the new year will my blood LFT still be fine in the new year or shall i apply now as been advised by a good member who has gone through this long process. Just wanted to wait for second blood results to show full 6 months + which will get the support off my GP if they contact them again which i expect. What are your thoughts guys thanks les.
 

Grantyone

Well-known member
I cannot really answer the last question as the DVLA are a very untamed beast when it comes to this proceedure. All I will say is that every single banned driver is a individual case and each case is judged on its own merits.

Just because two drink drivers blow the same reading, serve the same ban length and have similar medical histories doesn't mean both will be treated exactly the same.

Something the DVLA really needs to push for is enforcing and educating 'newly' banned drivers about the HRO medical proceedures at the start of their conviction. All my knowledge, has been gained with the help of this site and my own time & research. Many banned drivers who don't use this forum sadly don't get clued up about what to expect and sadly many are faced with huge disappointment when they make no preparation for getting their licence back and are then faced with a huge fat NO when they reapply at the end of the ban.

CJ
Totally get that. And I agree, this site has been incredibly helpful with the advice and help.

That said, I feel that even as a HRO, yes you can complete regular check in’s with your doctor, but I think really, a medial pass and a clean bill of health confirmed by the GP should be enough. The punishment was dished out quite rightly by the courts.

As I said, if alcohol abstaining is a route DVLA choose to go down, I feel that can only be on the back of a failed or borderline medical and/or a GP report which highlights inconsistencies with your medical form or any documents alcohol issues.

Getting myself a bit worried to be fair, as I was under the impression even as a HRO, licence renewal was a formality if passing all the application checks.
 

C J 1980

Well-known member
I waited 6 years before i applied for my licence to to still being a builder and i liked a few pints after work most days,Anyway applied for my licence last year baring in mind i had not seen my gp in over 4 years but due to my reading was classed as hro. CDT readings came back as 1.7 so they wrote in my Gp which they replied and i was classed as misuse. Made an appointment so second blood test next week to prove LFT which has been documented since march and passed the first and will pass this one as been abstaining.

If i leave applying until the new year will my blood LFT still be fine in the new year or shall i apply now as been advised by a good member who has gone through this long process. Just wanted to wait for second blood results to show full 6 months + which will get the support off my GP if they contact them again which i expect. What are your thoughts guys thanks les.
Les

As the Tesco saying goes 'Every little bit helps'. Another LFT would be beneficial, but as I've said in my own post, LFTs are not necessarily a good indicator for sobriety. The liver is a very complex organ, as is the human body, so continual sobriety isn't a guarantee that the LFT will come back low.

The CDT is the golden ticket - so the longer you abstain the better. Even if you do the CDT in early 2021, I wouldn't even contemplate having that festive glass of sherry on Christmas Day or the celebratory beer at New Year, I would maintain a strict zero attitude until you do your next CDT.

Its a bit like revising for an exam - the harder you work at it, the better chance of good results at the end.

CJ
 

topchippyles

Well-known member
Les

As the Tesco saying goes 'Every little bit helps'. Another LFT would be beneficial, but as I've said in my own post, LFTs are not necessarily a good indicator for sobriety. The liver is a very complex organ, as is the human body, so continual sobriety isn't a guarantee that the LFT will come back low.

The CDT is the golden ticket - so the longer you abstain the better. Even if you do the CDT in early 2021, I wouldn't even contemplate having that festive glass of sherry on Christmas Day or the celebratory beer at New Year, I would maintain a strict zero attitude until you do your next CDT.

Its a bit like revising for an exam - the harder you work at it, the better chance of good results at the end.

CJ
Honestman has told me to apply now which i am going to do. Just wanted it out of the way before christams or wait until mid january just in case i have a few beers over the festive season. Just no timescale to know what is going on and should not be punished should enjoy a few beers on 2 weeks holiday. Christ even the judges enjoy the festive season
 
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C J 1980

Well-known member
Honestman has told me to apply now which i am going to do. Just wanted it out of the way before christams or wait until mid january just in case i have a few beers over the festive season. Just no timescale to know what is going on and should not be punished should enjoy a few beers on 2 weeks holiday. Christ even the judges enjoy the festive season
I'm beginning to think the DVLA are based in a monastery in Swansea, where alcohol is strictly forbidden. At least they don't have any control over our sex lives.

CJ
 

movinonup

Member
Hi
I’m HRO as been caught twice in the 10 year period and blew high reading , but I have no record on my Dr’s history of alcohol misuse of dependence, so when the DVLA get in touch with my Dr, they have no grounds of alcohol issues as it not on record, I’m I right I’m thinking this ?!!
 

price1367

TTC Group
Hi
I’m HRO as been caught twice in the 10 year period and blew high reading , but I have no record on my Dr’s history of alcohol misuse of dependence, so when the DVLA get in touch with my Dr, they have no grounds of alcohol issues as it not on record, I’m I right I’m thinking this ?!!
That is correct, providing your CDT score is OK you should get the full 10 year licence.
 

movinonup

Member
That is correct, providing your CDT score is OK you should get the full 10 year licence.
Thanks for your speedy reply, also can I ask for a later date than the one I get given , I had a session start on the month and want at least 6 weeks dry , before that I drank in moderation
 

price1367

TTC Group
You have a 6 week window from the date on the letter to have a test. Sometimes the GP can not offer an appointment in that time, or due to work commitments it cannot be done. Usually DVLA are open to shifting the date or nominating another doctor.
you do not need to abstain to pass the CDT test, but should drink within the guideline amounts (14 units in a week, spread over the week) for 3 weeks or so before the test. If you lapse over a weekend as a one off then it can affect the test for up to 14 days So you should not need to have 6 weeks from your ‘lapse’.
mind you, it does depend on what your ‘drinking in moderation’ means. If it is considered excessive by DVLA they could write to your GP which could delay your licence coming back by several weeks.
 

movinonup

Member
You have a 6 week window from the date on the letter to have a test. Sometimes the GP can not offer an appointment in that time, or due to work commitments it cannot be done. Usually DVLA are open to shifting the date or nominating another doctor.
you do not need to abstain to pass the CDT test, but should drink within the guideline amounts (14 units in a week, spread over the week) for 3 weeks or so before the test. If you lapse over a weekend as a one off then it can affect the test for up to 14 days So you should not need to have 6 weeks from your ‘lapse’.
mind you, it does depend on what your ‘drinking in moderation’ means. If it is considered excessive by DVLA they could write to your GP which could delay your licence coming back by several weeks.
Thanks for the reply , moderation i can have 2 pints or 5 pints two or three times a week(not every week may i add) . one i could have the 2 next may have 5 or vise versa not one of these thats gorra have a session once enter a pub , but on occasions at the weekend maybe more like i did on this occasion(but again not every weekend) ,don't drink at home, i giving it 10 days before making my appointment , then i have to see when the next available date is..i just want to be all clear, so why i want to give myself 6 weeks it's so confusing ,so if i don't drink in the next two weeks and then till my medical i should be ok ?
 

BigTom

Well-known member
Thanks for the reply , moderation i can have 2 pints or 5 pints two or three times a week(not every week may i add) . one i could have the 2 next may have 5 or vise versa not one of these thats gorra have a session once enter a pub , but on occasions at the weekend maybe more like i did on this occasion(but again not every weekend) ,don't drink at home, i giving it 10 days before making my appointment , then i have to see when the next available date is..i just want to be all clear, so why i want to give myself 6 weeks it's so confusing ,so if i don't drink in the next two weeks and then till my medical i should be ok ?
You need to make a decision. Do you want your licence back or not? If you do want it back, then don't drink. Simple as that! If you can't go without drinking for a short period then you shouldn't get a licence back, that is dependence and you need to show at least 12 months total abstinence followed by at least another 6 years of not drinking at all.

Having a licence is not a given, it is a privilege and you need to make your mind up. Ignore Price's advice if you want and see where you end up! You might wing it by carrying on as you were, then again you might just mess your life up for another period of time. Just sayin'......
 

Grantyone

Well-known member
That is correct, providing your CDT score is OK you should get the full 10 year licence.
Exactly what I wanted to hear as well. A clean medical file and an acceptable CDT = licence renewal.

I was a bit concerned that I had missed a trick by not involving my GP prior to the DVLA contacting them, but reassured now.

Thanks!

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