Can initial court date be changed? We should be on holiday:( Husband charged with failing to provide,but he did provide breath results.

[okcana86]

Last night husband was charged with failing to provide. He blew into breazyliser twice once at 60 then 72, so police asked for blood test. Husband anxious about needles so said he already provided and wants legal advice now if he still has to do blood test.

The question I have is his court hearing is supposed to be on 31st October but that when we are coming back from holidays. So even 1st November would work. What are our chances of requesting to change the hearing date? Kids would be devastated if we can't go

Many thanks for any help

 

[Dinlo]

His option to do a blood test has now passed. It's extremely unlikely that you'll be able to change the hearing date.

 

[BigTom]

Last night husband was charged with failing to provide. He blew into breazyliser twice once at 60 then 72, so police asked for blood test. Husband anxious about needles so said he already provided and wants legal advice now if he still has to do blood test.

The question I have is his court hearing is supposed to be on 31st October but that when we are coming back from holidays. So even 1st November would work. What are our chances of requesting to change the hearing date? Kids would be devastated if we can't go

Many thanks for any help

Were the 2 breath tests back at the station on the evidential machine? Unfortunately, you do not get to choose which method they do the check, if he refused to provide that is potentially much worse than if he had provided (given the readings stated), as if convicted, he will be classed as an HRO now.

If he doesn't get the hearing postponed, if he doesn't turn up on the day of the hearing, a warrant for his arrest will be issued and he will be held in custody until a future hearing is held. This could also affect what the magistrates decide upon as a suitable punishment....

 

[Coostietightner123]

He could always develop covid “wink wink” don’t know if that still works

 

[okcana86]

Omg, this is so stressful,I was hoping to at least not disrupt kids holidays and then deal with this all
He was stopped at 11pm last night after driving out of mc Donald's drive through, police could smell alcohol but had not breathalyser. Husband said he had 1.5 pints. But he wasn't drunk. He said he was tired as only had 3 hours of sleep last night and was coming from long day at work.

Second police car came, again no breathalyser. They told him he would need to go to police station to have the test. He said "well I have no option do i".

The handcuffed him and took into their car.

In police station he did two readings 60(or 65?) and 72, policeman said its too different so have to do blood test. Husband said OK. When waiting for blood test to be taken he was given a piece of paper with his rights. Husband read that he had to provide specimen by one of the three methods. So he said "I already did" why do I need blood test?" He was actually very anxious of needle and was concerned how hygienic it would be. Has a bit of OCD tbf.

So Husband said "it says here i can have legal advice so I would like to talk to solicitor on what my options are before doing blood test ". Policeman said it doesn't work like that and you are then refusing to provide specific. Husband many times repeated " I'm not refusing I just want to know my options ". So police solicitor rung him, and was very rude. Did not offer any advice. Said somethings along the lines of " you are ****ing idiot, funking drunk". And hanged up on him. Husband was shocked and said this to police officers how can solicitor talk like this. Husband suspects it wasn't solicitor after all,maybe just another police officer acting like one.

After this noone asked for a specimen again. They finished taking his fingerprints and took him into cell where he stayed until morning.

So he hasn't actually refused to provide just was anxious of having his blood taken and wanted to know what his rights were if he actually absolutely had to. Or did did have an option not too.

Right now I would really like not to spoil it for kids with this holidays. And ofcourse having to be without car for at least a year ( I don't drive) and then all the financial implications is just devastating

If we ask a court to move date and they refuse, how would it look if he calls sick on the day? We would be abroad then and could call and say he is not in position to fly earlier as we hoped as he is not well enough..

Don't want him to be arrested but need to do something not to spoil it for kids. They don't deserve it , they have been waiting for so long

Please any advice hugely appreciated

 

[Coostietightner123]

Omg, this is so stressful,I was hoping to at least not disrupt kids holidays and then deal with this all
He was stopped at 11pm last night after driving out of mc Donald's drive through, police could smell alcohol but had not breathalyser. Husband said he had 1.5 pints. But he wasn't drunk. He said he was tired as only had 3 hours of sleep last night and was coming from long day at work.

Second police car came, again no breathalyser. They told him he would need to go to police station to have the test. He said "well I have no option do i".

The handcuffed him and took into their car.

In police station he did two readings 60(or 65?) and 72, policeman said its too different so have to do blood test. Husband said OK. When waiting for blood test to be taken he was given a piece of paper with his rights. Husband read that he had to provide specimen by one of the three methods. So he said "I already did" why do I need blood test?" He was actually very anxious of needle and was concerned how hygienic it would be. Has a bit of OCD tbf.

So Husband said "it says here i can have legal advice so I would like to talk to solicitor on what my options are before doing blood test ". Policeman said it doesn't work like that and you are then refusing to provide specific. Husband many times repeated " I'm not refusing I just want to know my options ". So police solicitor rung him, and was very rude. Did not offer any advice. Said somethings along the lines of " you are ****ing idiot, funking drunk". And hanged up on him. Husband was shocked and said this to police officers how can solicitor talk like this. Husband suspects it wasn't solicitor after all,maybe just another police officer acting like one.

After this noone asked for a specimen again. They finished taking his fingerprints and took him into cell where he stayed until morning.

So he hasn't actually refused to provide just was anxious of having his blood taken and wanted to know what his rights were if he actually absolutely had to. Or did did have an option not too.

Right now I would really like not to spoil it for kids with this holidays. And ofcourse having to be without car for at least a year ( I don't drive) and then all the financial implications is just devastating

If we ask a court to move date and they refuse, how would it look if he calls sick on the day? We would be abroad then and could call and say he is not in position to fly earlier as we hoped as he is not well enough..

Don't want him to be arrested but need to do something not to spoil it for kids. They don't deserve it , they have been waiting for so long

Please any advice hugely appreciated

I don’t know is the first thing, but what I do know if he’s blown 60-72 he’s had more than 1.5 pints the fact that his readings were rising and not decreasing is a bit of a give away.

 

[okcana86]

I don’t know is the first thing, but what I do know if he’s blown 60-72 he’s had more than 1.5 pints the fact that his readings were rising and not decreasing is a bit of a give away.

I understand, but now he is being charged with failing to provide and in fact at no point he refused, just wanted to know his rights. After the call with so called solicitor, noone asked for any other sample. Why wasn't he asked for urine sample for example or given another chance to blow?

 

[Coostietightner123]

I understand, but now he is being charged with failing to provide and in fact at no point he refused, just wanted to know his rights. After the call with so called solicitor, noone asked for any other sample. Why wasn't he asked for urine sample for example or given another chance to blow?

I understand your frustration but being arrested but the police do not offer multiple choice. You do as you’re told within reason. Saying that you want to know your rights when your being told to take a blood test, unless there are real solid irrefutable grounds, ie documented needle phobias etc that were mentioned at the time, you are by default refusing. Rightly or wrongly, many people 100’s maybe 1000’s have been down this route before, and have incurred massively negative consequences. Your husband is almost certainly now facing HRO status as a result of this. The fact is, he drank alcohol and put the key in the ignition, nothing detracts from that fact. There is all the help in the world on this site, and absolutely no judgment we are all here under similar circumstances. But there’s also a lot of brutal honesty. To set your mind at rest I suggest you speak to the duty solicitor or a local firm to see what your options are. As far as the holiday goes, I can’t answer that one, but as already stated maybe the covid route? Anyway good luck, I’d love to see you get a positive outcome.

 

[okcana86]

I understand your frustration but being arrested but the police do not offer multiple choice. You do as you’re told within reason. Saying that you want to know your rights when your being told to take a blood test, unless there are real solid irrefutable grounds, ie documented needle phobias etc that were mentioned at the time, you are by default refusing. Rightly or wrongly, many people 100’s maybe 1000’s have been down this route before, and have incurred massively negative consequences. Your husband is almost certainly now facing HRO status as a result of this. The fact is, he drank alcohol and put the key in the ignition, nothing detracts from that fact. There is all the help in the world on this site, and absolutely no judgment we are all here under similar circumstances. But there’s also a lot of brutal honesty. To set your mind at rest I suggest you speak to the duty solicitor or a local firm to see what your options are. As far as the holiday goes, I can’t answer that one, but as already stated maybe the covid route? Anyway good luck, I’d love to see you get a positive outcome.

Thank you, if only he knew that there were no options where would I find duty solicitor? And when would I use covid route? Hearing is Monday. We will be abroad. Can he just call from abroad and say he tested positive for covid? Will they see in his passport that he was abroad on that day? I was thinking to call on Monday and try and change the date. But if they don't then covid excuse will look super suspicious.. arghh!! So devastating and frustrating just trying to get through it with minimal disruption to kids. Ofcourse husband deserves it

 

[Sundog]

My advice - if this can be arranged - is someone goes on his behalf, and explains that the defendant can’t be there as he got his dates mixed up. I doubt very much a relative or friend would even get past security, but perhaps you could look into appointing a solicitor to represent you in absentia from wherever you are? Logistically difficult I know, but there are ways.

I think that’s better than an excuse that can easily be proven otherwise (he’s in a world of shit if he knowingly misses a court date) and at least it demonstrates some attempt on his behalf to make up for the oversight. It’ll cost, but… so will the consequences, I guess.

Phoning from abroad is unwise. If the call flashes up from an overseas number, first conclusion they will draw is that he’s done a runner. Which - in a much smaller way to you - he has. To the law that won’t matter. You need to do something, and lying to a court… I think you both need to start thinking like serious adults.

The other problem is it doesn’t take a fool to look on here, so whatever you decide you might want to ask the mods to can this thread soon!

One other thing - did they swab him for drugs during his arrest? Just wondering why the blood test at all. The readings weren’t that far apart, and wouldn’t greatly have affected the sentence. He’s in a lot more trouble now than he would have been if he just have a clean blood sample.

Good luck with it all. I’d say it was really unwise to take this trip, or at least not he fly back alone to face his actions. But you’re in that situation now - you’d best act to make sure it doesn’t get worse. None of us can judge him for what he’s done, but we’ve all got to act to limit the damage at some point. I really hope you can get through to them because it could be an embarrassing arrival back home otherwise.

 

[TPR]

I changed the date of my hearing as I was out of the Country. I emailed the court and sent them evidence that I had a pre planned trip. I would suggest you act quickly though. It takes time for them to process it.

 

[Polly3]

Thank you, if only he knew that there were no options where would I find duty solicitor? And when would I use covid route? Hearing is Monday. We will be abroad. Can he just call from abroad and say he tested positive for covid? Will they see in his passport that he was abroad on that day? I was thinking to call on Monday and try and change the date. But if they don't then covid excuse will look super suspicious.. arghh!! So devastating and frustrating just trying to get through it with minimal disruption to kids. Ofcourse husband deserves it

My advice is to instruct a solicitor to attend court on your husbands behalf . You will need to ring a firm that services the relevant court asap , and probably pay something on account up front .

 

[Polly3]

My advice is to instruct a solicitor to attend court on your husbands behalf . You will need to ring a firm that services the relevant court asap , and probably pay something on account up front .

I’ve just seen what the date is. You have plenty of time. Instruct a solicitor to approach the Court and provide evidence of preplanned holiday . All of the ins and outs re what happened with police is irrelevant.

 

[mrturk]

One other thing - did they swab him for drugs during his arrest? Just wondering why the blood test at all. The readings weren’t that far apart, and wouldn’t greatly have affected the sentence. He’s in a lot more trouble now than he would have been if he just have a clean blood sample.

When the two breath readings are provided the police officer looks them up on a table, which tells them if the readings are acceptably close together. You can also look at that table on the MGDD/A which is freely available online.

Those two readings are too far apart to be used as evidence. The law then states that if the readings are not acceptable the police officer must request a sample for analysis. It's the police officer's choice whether to request blood or urine. In this case they requested blood. The arrestee may not ask for the other option and blowing the breath machine again isn't an option.

In this case the arrestee didn't give consent for a blood sample, so this is a clear cut failure to provide case.

After the call with so called solicitor, noone asked for any other sample. Why wasn't he asked for urine sample for example or given another chance to blow?

An arrestee is free to request a solicitor but the police are not obliged to wait for the solicitor before taking a sample. Too many people would use waiting for a solicitor as a delay tactic so the courts don't give any consideration to people who complain about not getting legal advice before giving a sample.

Husband many times repeated " I'm not refusing I just want to know my options ". So police solicitor rung him, and was very rude. Did not offer any advice. Said somethings along the lines of " you are ****ing idiot, funking drunk". And hanged up on him. Husband was shocked and said this to police officers how can solicitor talk like this. Husband suspects it wasn't solicitor after all,maybe just another police officer acting like one.

Just FYI there is no such thing as a 'police solicitor'. The duty solicitor is provided by a local law firm and do not work for the police. The legal advice they give is impartial and just as good as if you had paid for one. I find it actually laughable at the claim your husband was sworn at over the phone by one, your husband is 100% not being honest with you there. Particularly given that the police have no reason to fake a solicitor call, as they are under no legal obligation to wait for one.

 

[okcana86]

In this case the arrestee didn't give consent for a blood sample, so this is a clear cut failure to provide case.

He did actually become very anxious when faced with having needle used on him. That's why he said he wasn't comfortable with it and wanted legal advice if blood was actually legally required or he had other option. He had no idea this would put him in worse position.

About solicitor, he wouldn't be lying and hoping there is a recording of that conversation to use in court. If these conversations don't get recorded then that would explain why that solicitor can behave in such appalling way.

 

[okcana86]

When the two breath readings are provided the police officer looks them up on a table, which tells them if the readings are acceptably close together. You can also look at that table on the MGDD/A which is freely available online.

Those two readings are too far apart to be used as evidence. The law then states that if the readings are not acceptable the police officer must request a sample for analysis. It's the police officer's choice whether to request blood or urine. In this case they requested blood. The arrestee may not ask for the other option and blowing the breath machine again isn't an option.

In this case the arrestee didn't give consent for a blood sample, so this is a clear cut failure to provide case.

An arrestee is free to request a solicitor but the police are not obliged to wait for the solicitor before taking a sample. Too many people would use waiting for a solicitor as a delay tactic so the courts don't give any consideration to people who complain about not getting legal advice before giving a sample.

Just FYI there is no such thing as a 'police solicitor'. The duty solicitor is provided by a local law firm and do not work for the police. The legal advice they give is impartial and just as good as if you had paid for one. I find it actually laughable at the claim your husband was sworn at over the phone by one, your husband is 100% not being honest with you there. Particularly given that the police have no reason to fake a solicitor call, as they are under no legal obligation to wait for one.

Is there any reason to plead not guilty here at all? Husband didn't not provide sample on purpose. He wanted to cooperate just was super anxious about having his blood taken.

If we request cctv and bodycam to try and prove that he was cooperating all along would we get it? Are all conversations being recorded? Especially when he was waiting to have blood taken and then felt uneasy about it and told police officer? Husband hasn't had a needle in him for at least 10 years and has been avoiding anything to do with needles. But ofcourse it's not recorded with gp as he hasn't seen gp in that long either

 

[okcana86]

I’ve just seen what the date is. You have plenty of time. Instruct a solicitor to approach the Court and provide evidence of preplanned holiday . All of the ins and outs re what happened with police is irrelevant.

Thank you, will contact court on Monday to see if I can actually send evidence of holiday over to them and ask to change date. Will also look for solicitor on Monday. So we can just instruct any solicitor for the first hearing? It doesn't have to be the one who takes on the case further?

 

[JamesH2122]

He did actually become very anxious when faced with having needle used on him. That's why he said he wasn't comfortable with it and wanted legal advice if blood was actually legally required or he had other option. He had no idea this would put him in worse position.

About solicitor, he wouldn't be lying and hoping there is a recording of that conversation to use in court. If these conversations don't get recorded then that would explain why that solicitor can behave in such appalling way.

Does he have a phobia of needles logged with his GP? Has he ever had a vaccine? Tattoos?

Regarding the initial query, contact the court and tell them the situation.

But don't just not turn up, as he risks then being arrested and held in a cell for however long it takes to get him into court, and/or be charged with contempt of court.

 

[okcana86]

I changed the date of my hearing as I was out of the Country. I emailed the court and sent them evidence that I had a pre planned trip. I would suggest you act quickly though. It takes time for them to process it.

Thank you, will do first thing on Monday, not sure where to email yet. You were out of the country on the day of hearing or when the hearing date was set up? How long did it take them in your case?

 

[Coostietightner123]

Is there any reason to plead not guilty here at all? Husband didn't not provide sample on purpose. He wanted to cooperate just was super anxious about having his blood taken.

If we request cctv and bodycam to try and prove that he was cooperating all along would we get it? Are all conversations being recorded? Especially when he was waiting to have blood taken and then felt uneasy about it and told police officer? Husband hasn't had a needle in him for at least 10 years and has been avoiding anything to do with needles. But ofcourse it's not recorded with gp as he hasn't seen gp in that long either

My personal opinion is that if his condition is not noted with his gp then he’s pretty much screwed. I could have a condition that makes me multiply the effect of alcohol, but if it’s not on record, they will think I’m talking bollocks. Your hubby wasn’t given a choice as he’s not entitled to one. That’s their thinking not mine. Speak to a solicitor, but again my view is that when your hubby didn’t have the blood test with no probable reason, that will be taken as a refusal, and as such he will be categorised as an HRO. I hope I’m wrong