Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

Convicted Driver Insurance

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
Fantastic thank you, so first port of call is highlighting them jumping the gun with the TP form and a breakdown of costs, then query them?

I’ve no huge issue in paying, I’ve issue with being taken for a ride.

Will definitely take you up on offer of help with letter. I can write formally fairly well but I don’t know what I’m talking about here!

Definitely highlight your surprise and displeasure that the car has been repaired before the letter was sent. Ask them to explain their actions.
Main priority is the final bill. Insist on getting all the detail - reports, estimates, bills and colour photographs. The photos they sent me were useless and initially just a black and white copy.
 

Alldaybreakfastin

Well-known member
Definitely highlight your surprise and displeasure that the car has been repaired before the letter was sent. Ask them to explain their actions.
Main priority is the final bill. Insist on getting all the detail - reports, estimates, bills and colour photographs. The photos they sent me were useless and initially just a black and white copy.
Ok thanks. Stupidly I sent them my photos when they asked when I reported incident - thought I was doing the right thing 😒
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
Ok thanks. Stupidly I sent them my photos when they asked when I reported incident - thought I was doing the right thing 😒
Don't worry about that, it doesn't matter.

If they've done anything more than just fixing the bumper you'll want to see evidence of the damage.
There might be damaged components behind the bumper that you couldn't see.
 

Alldaybreakfastin

Well-known member
Definitely highlight your surprise and displeasure that the car has been repaired before the letter was sent. Ask them to explain their actions.
Main priority is the final bill. Insist on getting all the detail - reports, estimates, bills and colour photographs. The photos they sent me were useless and initially just a black and white copy.
When writing this letter, do I ask for this all at once or string it along? Not much likelihood of this timing out is there, so just get on with it and ask for as much info as possible?

Thinking of formatting letter:

1. Explain situation, received indemnity on Tuesday, was seeking advice on how to proceed, informed admiral via phone that I was not refusing to sign or pay but that I was seeking advice before proceeding in any direction.

2. Surprise to find out TP already signed some forms despite me having 21 days to sign mine. And they stated IF I didn’t sign, TP would be sent forms. Could I mention that I was seeking advice and I was considering the option to offer to pay TP insurer direct - since they said they had no obligation to pay until the TP took me to court why did they do this? By not waiting for my reply they removed my option to pay TP direct, and never highlighted it as an option to me.

Having said that - TP (car owner) didn’t say it was the Assignment and agreement form but I’m assuming it was. He just said my insurance sent him a form saying they would cover all costs and he signed it.

Anyone know if it’s the owner or the insurer (TP) that signs the assignment and agreement form?

2. Estimate and breakdown of cost inc reports, hire charges and photos?

Anything else?
 

price1367

TTC Group
Because the matter is so fresh there is little prospect of timing it out after 6 years so go for all the points.
I think it is the owner who signs the assignment and agreement form.
I think it is in order to say that by proceeding without informing you (and indeed indicating that the matter could NOT proceed at that time until the form had been signed) that you were prevented from arranging a settlement yourself.
Yes, ask for a full breakdown of all that they claim to have paid out for, and the supporting documents to substantiate them.
 

Alldaybreakfastin

Well-known member
Because the matter is so fresh there is little prospect of timing it out after 6 years so go for all the points.
I think it is the owner who signs the assignment and agreement form.
I think it is in order to say that by proceeding without informing you (and indeed indicating that the matter could NOT proceed at that time until the form had been signed) that you were prevented from arranging a settlement yourself.
Yes, ask for a full breakdown of all that they claim to have paid out for, and the supporting documents to substantiate them.
Thank you! Just finished my first draft now, it pretty much does say all of that but probably worth another few reads and edits. Might be worth posting in case I’ve got anything wrong?

It will probably get me nowhere but I’d like to be well informed about people making decisions on my behalf!

Would you expect them to have actually agreed a sum and paid now the car is back? Or do they work on ‘yes I’ll pay you - invoice me’ ?!

And now a form has been signed by the third party, they can’t go back on it and say well if you don’t want us involved, deal with the TP and court yourself then?

I owe you both several virtual pints 🍺- not sure that’s at all appropriate here but no ones driving so it’s allowed? 😁
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
Almost certainly be paid within their invoicing period. Not sure it matters if money have been paid. Admiral are committed to pay their supplier.

I know I would be tempted to string it out, but only to see if they continue to be underhand and/or obstructive about it. Best to follow John's more sensible and dispassionate approach though. Hopefully we are talking about a 'fair' repair cost to a bumper but let's see.

I'd keep it down to some simple open questions to allow them to disclose as little or as much as the want. Then follow up on their responses.

Make sure you tell them how their letter made you feel. Judging by your earlier posts it seems to have caused a lot of stress and anxiety. Repeated mention of CCJs and courts are somewhat scary.

Whilst considering the options you gave me I discovered that I could have settled directly with the third party (car owner) Please explain why this option was not offered.

It has become clear that your Drink and Drugs exclusion has been changed since September 2020 (did they highlight this at renewal time?) As far as I was aware you had withdrawn cover.

Although you have withdrawn cover you clearly still appear to have legal obligations which are unclear to me. Please explain the law and guidelines that determine the options you have offered. Please explain why I have not been kept fully informed of your actions which could have led to me choosing the wrong option.

I have contacted the TP - include his name and address. I think that should remove any data protection excuses when asking for documents.

You appear to have settled the claim in full during the time period you gave me to consider the option is letter dated dd/mm/yy
I am told by the TP the repair is complete and for him the matter is closed. Please explain the current status and update me on the options I now have.

When are you planning to inform me of the costs of the claim. I will of course require all the details, including engineers report, estimates, bills, colour photographs. I believe I am entitled to challenge any excessive costs or unnecessary repairs. I have access to my own expert to validate the vehicle repair costs.

Those are just my thoughts. You need put it into your own words and understand it all without just copying and pasting.
 

Alldaybreakfastin

Well-known member
Almost certainly be paid within their invoicing period. Not sure it matters if money have been paid. Admiral are committed to pay their supplier.

I know I would be tempted to string it out, but only to see if they continue to be underhand and/or obstructive about it. Best to follow John's more sensible and dispassionate approach though. Hopefully we are talking about a 'fair' repair cost to a bumper but let's see.

I'd keep it down to some simple open questions to allow them to disclose as little or as much as the want. Then follow up on their responses.

Make sure you tell them how their letter made you feel. Judging by your earlier posts it seems to have caused a lot of stress and anxiety. Repeated mention of CCJs and courts are somewhat scary.

Whilst considering the options you gave me I discovered that I could have settled directly with the third party (car owner) Please explain why this option was not offered.

It has become clear that your Drink and Drugs exclusion has been changed since September 2020 (did they highlight this at renewal time?) As far as I was aware you had withdrawn cover.

Although you have withdrawn cover you clearly still appear to have legal obligations which are unclear to me. Please explain the law and guidelines that determine the options you have offered. Please explain why I have not been kept fully informed of your actions which could have led to me choosing the wrong option.

I have contacted the TP - include his name and address. I think that should remove any data protection excuses when asking for documents.

You appear to have settled the claim in full during the time period you gave me to consider the option is letter dated dd/mm/yy
I am told by the TP the repair is complete and for him the matter is closed. Please explain the current status and update me on the options I now have.

When are you planning to inform me of the costs of the claim. I will of course require all the details, including engineers report, estimates, bills, colour photographs. I believe I am entitled to challenge any excessive costs or unnecessary repairs. I have access to my own expert to validate the vehicle repair costs.

Those are just my thoughts. You need put it into your own words and understand it all without just copying and pasting.
Fantastic thank you so much, I will edit it again today ready to send tomorrow. I think I may have babbled and gone into too much detail, would you be so kind if I PM’d you it to check there’s nothing awful on it before I send?

Thanks again for all your help
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
Fantastic thank you so much, I will edit it again today ready to send tomorrow. I think I may have babbled and gone into too much detail, would you be so kind if I PM’d you it to check there’s nothing awful on it before I send?

Thanks again for all your help
Sure, feel free to PM it.
Maybe John too if he agrees. He’s not emotionally involved like I am although he is helping to calm me down these days 😄

Probably worth saying that you should assume Admiral read these threads although there’s nothing to prove that they do.
 

price1367

TTC Group
Sure, feel free to PM it.
Maybe John too if he agrees. He’s not emotionally involved like I am although he is helping to calm me down these days 😄

Probably worth saying that you should assume Admiral read these threads although there’s nothing to prove that they do.
I am fine with that
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
I am fine with that
Much appreciated John. I know I put you into a corner on this but your knowledge and level head is a real asset to the thread.
I have tried to back away from getting involved in individual cases because we have added a lot of information to the thread.
As this is the first one with different T&Cs it'll help others if we can try to understand the implications.

Personally I think it is less clear than the previous exclusion clause. At least before it said they would settle the TP claim and pursue the policyholder or the driver. I've had 10 years of believing the clause was underpinned by the RTA.

It has taken an FOS investigator/ombudsman to unravel it and point out that It's technically incorrect. Other insurers seemed to copy Admiral, pretty much word for word. The insurance company legal teams don't seem to understand it so how on earth can the consumer be expected to understand it.

No cover under the policy will be given and instead, liability will be restricted to meeting the obligations as required by Road Traffic Law and we will cancel your policy

No cover provided. (so we'll explain in plain English what happens):-

Instead, Admiral still have some (undefined) liability and will be meeting (undefined) obligations (to undefined persons or organisations) as required by (really complex and hard to understand) Road Traffic Law (which even Admiral legal team haven't understood or acknowledged, plus it includes MIB) and we will cancel your policy (so if a named driver triggers the clause even the innocent policyholder and named drivers are no longer covered and the policyholder has to declare a cancelled policy even though they've done nothing wrong)

Simply put in my own words - An RTC involving Drink or drug driving has consequences other than your DD conviction in the courts. It doesn't need a conviction for cover to be withdrawn, just blow over the limit. You will be pursued for the uninsured losses, through the courts if necessary.
Make sure you read the policy T&Cs. Read and understand 'Road Traffic Law' and all will become clear - Yeah good luck with that
 

Alldaybreakfastin

Well-known member
Much appreciated John. I know I put you into a corner on this but your knowledge and level head is a real asset to the thread.
I have tried to back away from getting involved in individual cases because we have added a lot of information to the thread.
As this is the first one with different T&Cs it'll help others if we can try to understand the implications.

Personally I think it is less clear than the previous exclusion clause. At least before it said they would settle the TP claim and pursue the policyholder or the driver. I've had 10 years of believing the clause was underpinned by the RTA.

It has taken an FOS investigator/ombudsman to unravel it and point out that It's technically incorrect. Other insurers seemed to copy Admiral, pretty much word for word. The insurance company legal teams don't seem to understand it so how on earth can the consumer be expected to understand it.



No cover provided. (so we'll explain in plain English what happens):-

Instead, Admiral still have some (undefined) liability and will be meeting (undefined) obligations (to undefined persons or organisations) as required by (really complex and hard to understand) Road Traffic Law (which even Admiral legal team haven't understood or acknowledged, plus it includes MIB) and we will cancel your policy (so if a named driver triggers the clause even the innocent policyholder and named drivers are no longer covered and the policyholder has to declare a cancelled policy even though they've done nothing wrong)

Simply put in my own words - An RTC involving Drink or drug driving has consequences other than your DD conviction in the courts. It doesn't need a conviction for cover to be withdrawn, just blow over the limit. You will be pursued for the uninsured losses, through the courts if necessary.
Make sure you read the policy T&Cs. Read and understand 'Road Traffic Law' and all will become clear - Yeah good luck with that
Thank you, I must admit I didn’t expect so much support and information from yourself, especially considering how long ago your sons case was.

What do you mean by it’s technically incorrect?
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
Thank you, I must admit I didn’t expect so much support and information from yourself, especially considering how long ago your sons case was.

What do you mean by it’s technically incorrect?

I've clearly got too much time on my hands :D
I can also empathise with people going through the stress of dealing with demands for money whilst dealing with a DD conviction.

I don't recall seeing anything about your DD conviction and what the readings were. I automatically assume you are facing a ban but the thing that grinds my gears is Admiral exclude for being over the prescribed limit, not a conviction.

Admiral stated in earlier policy document versions that they would meet their obligations under the RTA. They changed it to 'Road traffic Law' t some point then dropped the bit about settling and pursuing 'you or the driver'. Under Article 75 my understanding is that they can only pursue the driver.

The FOS case that I uncovered suggests they are the Article 75 Insurer, not the RTA insurer - that's because they've withdrawn cover and/or cancelled the policy. Therefore the exclusion wording was incorrect and the reason why they've changed it.

I still find it confusing and it is buried in the detail of motor insurance, uninsured losses, insurer liability and road traffic law that a consumer really shouldn't have to get into. The T&C's need to be crystal clear and now they seem less so.

They also do the A&A form for the TP to sign. I don't know where that fits in 'Road Traffic Law'

Even this doesn't seem to match up but might give you a bit more understanding Wiki RTA insurer flowchart

(Edited a few bits)
 
Last edited:
Hi,
I stupidly made the decision to DD in March and about 2 minutes after turning on the ignition, I ended up scraping the side of a car, knocking the wing mirror off another, before crashing into the back of a combi-van and writing off my Ford Fiesta.

I have subsequently been in touch with Admiral every week to check in on the claims against my policy and only the combi-van has set the wheels in motion to recover the costs from Admiral. The other vehicles have been fixed, but nothing has been heard from them after 2 months since the collision and they haven't put in any third-party claims against us.

I have signed the indemnity form since Admiral told my lwife that she would most certainly keep her no claims bonus as long as we were to pay up any third party costs (my wife was the joint policy holder on my old car).

Thankfully, my wife went to the scene and took photos first thing after the accident, and we've sent all of these to Admiral who said that these might be useful but I will have to pay whatever they pay out. Apparently, most policy holders are usually shocked at how much the recovery costs are, since the Third Parties can choose whoever fixes their vehicles and Admiral have nothing to do with these decisions.

I have no idea about what vehicles cost to repair. I have shown photos to a few people who have estimated between £2000 to £6000 damage; another mechanic said the van would be a write-off (a £15,000 vehicle - eek!).

I will keep this thread updated with any costs coming my way since it's been so useful to me.

I wish I'd got a taxi!
 
I've clearly got too much time on my hands :D
I can also empathise with people going through the stress of dealing with demands for money whilst dealing with a DD conviction.

I don't recall seeing anything about your DD conviction and what the readings were. I automatically assume you are facing a ban but the thing that grinds my gears is Admiral exclude for being over the prescribed limit, not a conviction.

Admiral stated in earlier policy document versions that they would meet their obligations under the RTA. They changed it to 'Road traffic Law' t some point then dropped the bit about settling and pursuing 'you or the driver'. Under Article 75 my understanding is that they can only pursue the driver.

The FOS case that I uncovered suggests they are the Article 75 Insurer, not the RTA insurer - that's because they've withdrawn cover and/or cancelled the policy. Therefore the exclusion wording was incorrect and the reason why they've changed it.

I still find it confusing and it is buried in the detail of motor insurance, uninsured losses, insurer liability and road traffic law that a consumer really shouldn't have to get into. The T&C's need to be crystal clear and now they seem less so.

They also do the A&A form for the TP to sign. I don't know where that fits in 'Road Traffic Law'

Even this doesn't seem to match up but might give you a bit more understanding Wiki RTA insurer flowchart

(Edited a few bits)
What is the AA form?

Apparently the third party signed these two weeks ago for Admiral but Admiral have not heard anything back since in terms of costs against me.

Thanks
 

Alldaybreakfastin

Well-known member
Hi,
I stupidly made the decision to DD in March and about 2 minutes after turning on the ignition, I ended up scraping the side of a car, knocking the wing mirror off another, before crashing into the back of a combi-van and writing off my Ford Fiesta.

I have subsequently been in touch with Admiral every week to check in on the claims against my policy and only the combi-van has set the wheels in motion to recover the costs from Admiral. The other vehicles have been fixed, but nothing has been heard from them after 2 months since the collision and they haven't put in any third-party claims against us.

I have signed the indemnity form since Admiral told my lwife that she would most certainly keep her no claims bonus as long as we were to pay up any third party costs (my wife was the joint policy holder on my old car).

Thankfully, my wife went to the scene and took photos first thing after the accident, and we've sent all of these to Admiral who said that these might be useful but I will have to pay whatever they pay out. Apparently, most policy holders are usually shocked at how much the recovery costs are, since the Third Parties can choose whoever fixes their vehicles and Admiral have nothing to do with these decisions.

I have no idea about what vehicles cost to repair. I have shown photos to a few people who have estimated between £2000 to £6000 damage; another mechanic said the van would be a write-off (a £15,000 vehicle - eek!).

I will keep this thread updated with any costs coming my way since it's been so useful to me.

I wish I'd got a taxi!
Hi,

I’m going through almost exactly the same situation. I can’t offer any advice really other than to read the thread thoroughly - people on this forum have helped me hugely.

It’s an absolutely horrendous experience, I hope you’re coping with it as best as can be expected!
 
Hi,

I’m going through almost exactly the same situation. I can’t offer any advice really other than to read the thread thoroughly - people on this forum have helped me hugely.

It’s an absolutely horrendous experience, I hope you’re coping with it as best as can be expected!
Thank you Alldaybreakfastin! Did you sign the indemnity in the end? I'm guessing since I have, it's just a waiting game for my bill then take it on the chin and pay up...
 

Alldaybreakfastin

Well-known member
Thank you Alldaybreakfastin! Did you sign the indemnity in the end? I'm guessing since I have, it's just a waiting game for my bill then take it on the chin and pay up...
No, I haven’t yet. I am writing to them to request further clarification on its meaning and it’s implications for myself and it was quite confusing. I’m still inside the 21 days given to respond though.

How bad was your crash? I’ve had similar responses to you - some say it’s nothing some say could be a pretty big issue. It’s the fact everything is so inflated with insurance that worries me. My car was fixed in a day for £100, granted a much cheaper car... but I know the figure is going to be silly.

Biggest mistake ever!!! 😞
 
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